D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Yaarel]

The species is magic, as it magically adapts to it's environment. Not because it has some cantrips lol.

The Elf gimmick is that it casts spells innately. It doesnt gain gills from biological heritage, such as Triton does. Rather the Elf chooses the Gills spell and casts this spell innately.

Elves use magic to transform themselves and their environment.

 

[Scribe]

Rather the Elf chooses the Gills spell and casts this spell innately.

No hes doesnt, he breaths water without a spell. This is fact, we have been over it already.

Sea Elf does not cast a cantrip, can breath underwater in an anti-magic zone, and unconcious or sleeping, breaths underwater without issue.

You can wish it was different, but Elf to Sea Elf is a biological difference.

 

[Remathilis]

No hes doesnt, he breaths water without a spell. This is fact, we have been over it already.

Sea Elf does not cast a cantrip, can breath underwater in an anti-magic zone, and unconcious or sleeping, breaths underwater without issue.

You can wish it was different, but Elf to Sea Elf is a biological difference.

Not that again...

My elf casts the breathe air cantrip, then he uses the brush teeth cantrip and the create dump cantrip.

 

[tetrasodium]

But what does that actually mean?

Let’s go back to the right-up of dwarves in the 2014 5th edition PHB.

Its description of dwarves provides several hooks for DMs to create dwarven societies and for players to create dwarven characters.

• Religious;
• Tradition-bound;
• Warriors;
• Artisans and smiths;
• Organised in clans;
• Associated with hills, mountains and mining;
• Gruff or stoic;
• Stubborn and prone to grudges;
• Prone to greed.

There is enough fodder here for quite a few different adventurers, that are quite different from each other.

You seem to be hung up on an extremely restrictive conception of a dwarf. Do female dwarves not exist?


Is the problem that the archetypes aren’t new? Some archetypes are classics for a reason. You may as well rail against all characters for emulating “the hero’s journey”. That doesn’t mean that all PC are the same.


That criticism could literally be levelled against every single race in the PHB with only minor changes.

• How do dark elves live in caverns far below even what dwarves colonize?
• How do goblins, who don’t have dwarven artisanal traditions?
• How are humans and halflings not extinct from the large number of deadly monsters everywhere?
• Given that elves live for 900 years, how come we aren’t overrun with elves if each elf can have multiple offspring during their lifetimes?
• How are humans able to reproduce with elves and orcs?
• How do orcs maintain a raiding lifestyle with virtually no farming?
• Elves have hidden settlements. How is it possible to have no evidence of agriculture and still maintain a stable population?

The stories resonate with the themes that have been identified as dwarf culture. If dwarf culture is identified as highly religious and clannish, a dwarf that has turned his back on both can be developed in an interesting manner.

Likewise, any PC can have an arc that is about living up to societal pressure. But set that arc against a backdrop of a culture that is described as very conservative and traditional, and the society serves as a foil to the character.

You are the one who claimed "Clearly Hans and Volomyra are different notes of dwarves" back in 786 while describing standard backgrounds that still inherit the crushing weight of beards beer blacksmithing miners cave dwelling. No part of those two was even slightly different because everything dwarf is built around a single note set by Tolkien on every level.

 

[Gammadoodler]

The species is magic, as it magically adapts to it's environment. Not because it has some cantrips lol.

And thus, it should not function in an anti-magic zone.

A man can dream.

 

[Scribe]

And thus, it should not function in an anti-magic zone.

A man can dream.

I mean its one of those things. If its innate biological function of a 'magical species' does the species just wither and die in an anti-magic zone? The way Wizards is changing things in terms of casting, is just making a mess of it all from any kind of coherent perspective.

Maybe, in some fever dream, I'll have time to work on my own setting this weekend, the more I see discussions like 'oh its cantrips, except for when its not, except for npcs, except....' the more I want nothing to do with the current/upcoming D&D.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I mean its one of those things. If its innate biological function of a 'magical species' does the species just wither and die in an anti-magic zone? The way Wizards is changing things in terms of casting, is just making a mess of it all from any kind of coherent perspective.

Maybe, in some fever dream, I'll have time to work on my own setting this weekend, the more I see discussions like 'oh its cantrips, except for when its not, except for npcs, except....' the more I want nothing to do with the current/upcoming D&D.

I don't see setting coherence as considered valuable (at all really) by the current owners of official D&D.

 

[Kobold Avenger]

I mean its one of those things. If its innate biological function of a 'magical species' does the species just wither and die in an anti-magic zone? The way Wizards is changing things in terms of casting, is just making a mess of it all from any kind of coherent perspective.

They don't, the rules are pretty clear on that, a Warforged isn't going to die if they enter an anti-magic zone.

 

[LuisCarlos17f]

The key is if a character is reincarnated into other specie, what racial traits would be lost or kept? For example a dwarf used to wear heavy armour could be reincarnted into a dragoborn. The famous wizard Bigby was reincarnated into a gnome. Could he speak with animal a hour after the return?

Maybe a PC can't cast certain spell-like effect because the player chose a flaw (an anti-feat) to can get a very necessary feat for her combo.

 

[Yaarel]

No hes doesnt, he breaths water without a spell. This is fact, we have been over it already.

Sea Elf does not cast a cantrip, can breath underwater in an anti-magic zone, and unconcious or sleeping, breaths underwater without issue.

You can wish it was different, but Elf to Sea Elf is a biological difference.

The version of Sea Elf in Mordenkainen says, "you can breathe air and water", but doesnt explain how this happens. Presumably it is a magical feature, but not explicitly a spell feature.

Coming afterward, 2024 has a new more systematic format for the Elf species as a whole.

It is possible to update the Sea Elf along with other elven cultures according to the new Elf format.

In this case, the elven waterbreathing feature might be by means of a spell.


Keep in mind, 5e has three different versions of the Eladrin culture. One in the 2014 DMs Guide. One in Mordenkainens Tome of Foes. One in Mordenkainen Presents Monsters of the Multiverse. There can easily be a fourth version as an update to correspond to the 2024 core rules. A DM can choose to use any of these versions for a player Eladrin Elf.