D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Remathilis]

Whereas humans in AD&D could be anything they wanted to be. It's those other races that had to be played in certain ways.

In theory, but humans having "choice" didn't amount to much. A dwarf was a better fighter, an elf a better wizard, etc. half-elves could be almost every option they could, and multi class. Their own two exclusive abilities were they could be paladins and they could be dual classed, both of which require a prohibitively high ability score to do. Oh, and you could get to high level if you lived/played long enough.

Yeah, to be 2nd best option at anything you do isn't the flex people think it is.

 

[Corinnguard]

To me, that's a big reason to have nonhuman heritages in the first place. They have different strengths and weaknesses than humans do. Break all that down and I question why you bother with elves at all? They look cool is not a good enough reason for me in a fantasy world.

Nonhuman heritages and nonhuman cultures, like the kind in Level Up. Hmm...could you be a cultural 'Half-Elf' if you grew up in an Elven culture while having a different heritage?

 

[Micah Sweet]

In theory, but humans having "choice" didn't amount to much. A dwarf was a better fighter, an elf a better wizard, etc. half-elves could be almost every option they could, and multi class. Their own two exclusive abilities were they could be paladins and they could be dual classed, both of which require a prohibitively high ability score to do. Oh, and you could get to high level if you lived/played long enough.

Yeah, to be 2nd best option at anything you do isn't the flex people think it is.

And yet a lot of people seem to like 5e, and I can't think of a better description of it than, "2nd best option at anything you do".

 

[Remathilis]

To me, that's a big reason to have nonhuman heritages in the first place. They have different strengths and weaknesses than humans do. Break all that down and I question why you bother with elves at all? They look cool is not a good enough reason for me in a fantasy world.

Why not?

Seriously, why can't I be an elf because elves are cool/pretty/interesting? Why must I face penalties and restrictions because I want to play a 100 year old 20something with pointed ears? Assuming human and elf stats are balanced, there is no reason why elves need to be pigeonholed into rangers and mages. It's a fantasy game. I pretend to be a human in real life all the time, I don't know why I have to justify pretending to be an elf for a couple hours.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Why not?

Seriously, why can't I be an elf because elves are cool/pretty/interesting? Why must I face penalties and restrictions because I want to play a 100 year old 20something with pointed ears? Assuming human and elf stats are balanced, there is no reason why elves need to be pigeonholed into rangers and mages. It's a fantasy game. I pretend to be a human in real life all the time, I don't know why I have to justify pretending to be an elf for a couple hours.

But what actually makes elves different from humans? What does "pretending to be an elf" actually entail? In a game with rules I feel the rules should be built such that different species actually played differently.

 

[Remathilis]

And yet a lot of people seem to like 5e, and I can't think of a better description of it than, "2nd best option at anything you do".

Humans are amazing in 3e onward. Free skill and free feat features are amazing. It's only in AD&D where their most common ability is "you don't qualify for anything better, you can be human".

 

[Remathilis]

But what actually makes elves different from humans? What does "pretending to be an elf" actually entail? In a game with rules I feel the rules should be built such that different species actually played differently.

Whatever I want them to be. Maybe I want timeless Tolkien elves or maybe I want desert nomadic warrior elves on horseback. Why should the game force me into the former?

 

[Crimson Longinus]

Whatever I want them to be. Maybe I want timeless Tolkien elves or maybe I want desert nomadic warrior elves on horseback. Why should the game force me into the former?

It doesn't need to. But "elf" is just a word. Certainly it must actually mean something, in context of D&D? Otherwise, "pretending to be an elf" is a meaningless sentence.

 

[mellored]

Having attack and spell save DC follow an independent progression around (level/3)+5, round down, would make a lot of sense. Then your stats would be primarily oriented around boosting skills and saves. The stats can carry more fictional weight if they're less burdened by carrying the basic combat math.

And if you want higher stats to carry more weight for combat, simply build subclass features or feats that leverage the stats, either through stat requirements or "add +mod bonus" or "stat mod times per rest".

While I like your idea better, just going to throw out an alternative that could fit better into today's game.

Warlocks can already attack with Charisma, Artificers can use Int, so just expand that.

New Feat
Dilettante
Prerequisite: multiclass
+1 to any 2 stats
You may use the class DC or spell DC from one of your classes as the class or spell DC from another class. For instance, if you multiclass Wizard and Cleric, you could use your Intelligence to cast your Cleric spells.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Why not?

Seriously, why can't I be an elf because elves are cool/pretty/interesting? Why must I face penalties and restrictions because I want to play a 100 year old 20something with pointed ears? Assuming human and elf stats are balanced, there is no reason why elves need to be pigeonholed into rangers and mages. It's a fantasy game. I pretend to be a human in real life all the time, I don't know why I have to justify pretending to be an elf for a couple hours.

You don't. I said "they look cool" isn't a good enough reason for me. Feel free to have it be a good enough reason for you.