D&D (2024) No Dwarf, Halfling, and Orc suborgins, lineages, and legacies

[Mecheon]

Neither of whom have much of a setting presence in WotC circles.

I'd argue Goliaths have enough of a fan presence, which is why they're being PHB'd, but Goliath's advantage is they're half giants in everything but name and that's another very easy stereotype. The simpler a stereotype is, the more popular it ends up being as people know what to do with it, or how to go against theme to push at some of the odder sides of it

Aasimar, they've tried to get at Tiefling levels but failed (even though, frankly, I think 5E is the best spot they've ever been in popularity wise). Which gave us the Aardling experiment

 

[CreamCloud0]

A lack of a place can still be a place. The problem of course is there are so many other misfit races (half-elves, half-orcs, aasimar, etc) that they kinda get lost among the "not quite humans living in human lands" crowd.

i'd say the specific type of 'not fitting in' is very different between tiefling and the two half-elf and orc, where the latter are specifically strung between two worlds yet not quite fitting into either, there's still a connection there, whereas tiefling doesn't really fit in anywhere, perpetually met by skepticism and othering, and aasimar might be conceptually similar but between their nigh-human appearance and coming from the divine side of things rather than the demonic they really don't encounter anywhere near the same friction the tieflings do.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

But don’t you understand?! The part of halflings that’s interesting is that they’re not interesting! That’s why should totally get to be their race, instead of just a subtype of Gnomes or Humans.

If you were to combine Halflings and Gnomes into a single race, according to the data, it would actually be one of the more popular races. The problem is that we have two pretty similar small races with identity crises.

I was against this for a long time, but I've really come around on it. The differences between the races, once you shoo the Tolkien estate out of the room, are pretty minor, with more overlaps than differences.

("Yes, these short people live under ground and enjoy a quiet parochial life getting along with their neighbors, but they wear red pointed hats.")

I think merging the two -- with the explicit notation that they're called "halflings" or "gnomes" based on local culture -- would be fine. Outside of their two dominant deities, most of their pantheons are also largely interchangeable and could be merged ("oh,that's just what they call Brandobaris in gnomish lands") without any real trouble.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I was against this for a long time, but I've really come around on it. The differences between the races, once you shoo the Tolkien estate out of the room, are pretty minor, with more overlaps than differences.

("Yes, these short people live under ground and enjoy a quiet parochial life getting along with their neighbors, but they wear red pointed hats.")

I think merging the two -- with the explicit notation that they're called "halflings" or "gnomes" based on local culture" -- would be fine. Outside of their two dominant deities, most of their pantheons are also largely interchangeable and could be merged ("oh,that's just what they call Brandobaris in gnomish lands") without any real trouble.

If that's what you want to do in your home game, great. No reason to change D&D's lore to suit that opinion, however.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Aarakocra, Goblins and Tabaxi are probably the only non-PHB ones able to put a dent in their numbers due to being the very simple and noted RPG stereotypes of bird-people, goblins, and cat-people, but either way they're absolutely eclipsing stuff like yuan-ti or satyrs

It will be really interesting to see where satyrs are 10 years from now. They're a race that everyone immediately recognizes and understands, have clear roleplay hooks, clear classes they would be a good fit for and are relatively new as playable D&D ancestries. Now that they're not just in Theros, I wouldn't be surprised if they rise through the ranks over time. If I were the king of WotC and making a PHB from scratch, I'd give them a shot at being in there.

 

[Scribe]

If I were the king of WotC and making a PHB from scratch, I'd give them a shot at being in there.

How many options (Class/Species) do you put in though? Not even getting into Sub options for either.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

How many options (Class/Species) do you put in though? Not even getting into Sub options for either.

Without counting up all the races, I'd say 12 is a nice round number. It gets you the classic stuff, the more modern stuff and a few wild cards.

I wouldn't put in "subraces" other than maybe drow. Elves can be one race with cultural differences. You are not a different species because you live in a city. D&D has dumped subspecies in the past and everyone has been fine -- no one's out there crying for the return of grey elves, for instance, to say nothing of valley elves.

 

[Mecheon]

It will be really interesting to see where satyrs are 10 years from now. They're a race that everyone immediately recognizes and understands, have clear roleplay hooks, clear classes they would be a good fit for and are relatively new as playable D&D ancestries. Now that they're not just in Theros, I wouldn't be surprised if they rise through the ranks over time. If I were the king of WotC and making a PHB from scratch, I'd give them a shot at being in there.

Satyrs are one of those interesting ones that have been playable in basically every edition, even Basic had an option for them in Tall Tales of the Wee Folk.

I don't recall them ever being popular, though, so aren't sure if they'll have a jump like others. While fairly well known the satyr niche is a bit... Yeah . Centaurs are the other one of the well known ones I'd expect to see more from but, they're generally relegated to background characters

I wouldn't put in "subraces" other than maybe drow. Elves can be one race with cultural differences. You are not a different species because you live in a city. D&D has dumped subspecies in the past and everyone has been fine -- no one's out there crying for the return of grey elves, for instance, to say nothing of valley elves.

I'd argue the High/Wood split has enough story weight to it over time that it should probably remain in place, its a longstanding thing that folks seem to have at least accepted. Certainly far more than the Hill/Mountain dwarf split

Just all the outdoorsy elves become Wood elves, and all the magic-y arcane ones become High Elves.

 

[Mind of tempest]

Tieflings have a distinct, fundamental, and thematic lack of place in the world; it's one of the things that makes them so appealing to various players who don't feel like they really fit in the real world (a common feeling).

yeah that, plus some worlds given them a backstory of being an unjustly hated minority which resonates with many people

A lack of a place can still be a place. The problem of course is there are so many other misfit races (half-elves, half-orcs, aasimar, etc) that they kinda get lost among the "not quite humans living in human lands" crowd.

aasimar lack the disliked outsider status and look less cool.

I was against this for a long time, but I've really come around on it. The differences between the races, once you shoo the Tolkien estate out of the room, are pretty minor, with more overlaps than differences.

("Yes, these short people live under ground and enjoy a quiet parochial life getting along with their neighbors, but they wear red pointed hats.")

I think merging the two -- with the explicit notation that they're called "halflings" or "gnomes" based on local culture -- would be fine. Outside of their two dominant deities, most of their pantheons are also largely interchangeable and could be merged ("oh,that's just what they call Brandobaris in gnomish lands") without any real trouble.

the contrast is how they like to live life, gnomes are obsessive in whatever they care about and halflings are honestly I lack the word beyond boring or the term "not me" or "too similar to one side of the family".

 

[Remathilis]

Neither of whom have much of a setting presence in WotC circles.

Big fish in a small pond. And it would be amazing if they did. especially goliaths who can't talk back on the "touched by an angel" as their story.