D&D 5E No Magic Shops!

[Rossbert]

Maybe I am mixing editions or just remembering play test data but was the default campaign idea at the core a "points of light" setting.

On the whole populations are isolated, the night is dark and full of terrors, the great wonders of the past are lost and heroes are few and far between.

This seems like a world where a +1 weapon could be an amazing treasure, but a typical town couldn't afford its value.

I may be wrong on the setting, or even if I'm not it isn't relevant to all games but it does lend an explanation to why there was little information about the economics of metropolita areas with dozens or hundreds of wizards churning out magic devices for cash.

 

[ad_hoc]

Maybe I am mixing editions or just remembering play test data but was the default campaign idea at the core a "points of light" setting.

On the whole populations are isolated, the night is dark and full of terrors, the great wonders of the past are lost and heroes are few and far between.

This seems like a world where a +1 weapon could be an amazing treasure, but a typical town couldn't afford its value.

I may be wrong on the setting, or even if I'm not it isn't relevant to all games but it does lend an explanation to why there was little information about the economics of metropolita areas with dozens or hundreds of wizards churning out magic devices for cash.

Well the de facto setting for 5e is Forgotten Realms. I wouldn't describe it the way you do. 5e FR is much different than 3e.

3e had 2 things that 5e doesn't:

1) Rules for determining leveled NPCs by population (and the number and levels are very high. So much so that they would invalidate both mundane economies and the efforts of PCs)
2) Easy manufacturing of magic items.

In 5e PCs are created differently than NPCs. While there are NPCs with described levels in the MM, they aren't assumed as a % of the population and NPCs are not designed the same way as PCs. There are also no core magic item creation rules. XgtE has downtime rules that contain a module for magic item creation, but it isn't a core part of the system by any means.

The design ethos of 5e is to have magic items be special rather than mundane. They aren't assumed as part of PC advancement. Gaining them provides a bonus that helps for survival and completing adventures. In this paradigm every (non-common) magic item is a treasure.

 

[Ancalagon]

No magic shoppe in my game! I love the 5e approach!

... but. But. The campaign is based in the Yellow City in Yoon-Suin, a city that isn't quite Sigil but is certainly a lot more high magic than the average city. As a result, there are monthly magical items auction. But the items for sale are randomly chosen, so the party can't go pick and chose what they want. They've mostly ignored it so far, in part because the prices are high.

 

[ad_hoc]

No magic shoppe in my game! I love the 5e approach!

... but. But. The campaign is based in the Yellow City in Yoon-Suin, a city that isn't quite Sigil but is certainly a lot more high magic than the average city. As a result, there are monthly magical items auction. But the items for sale are randomly chosen, so the party can't go pick and chose what they want. They've mostly ignored it so far, in part because the prices are high.

[sblock] [/sblock]

 

[CapnZapp]

Lower than 1e maybe, but, not particularly lower than 3e.

Again, I'm not really seeing the problem. You have a list of magic item prices right there. Surely you can eyeball the prices based on the 3e list. How much support do you need?

Just stop it.

You're showing your ignorance. Updating the 3e system to 5e is a major undertaking.

Your opinions are thus devalued.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app

 

[Lanefan]

Lower than 1e maybe, but, not particularly lower than 3e.

Again, I'm not really seeing the problem. You have a list of magic item prices right there. Surely you can eyeball the prices based on the 3e list. How much support do you need?

I'm not looking for support - I was merely warning others that using those lists as written might lead to some issues with 5e - the published modules for which that I've read don't seem to be very lucrative at all even compared to their 3e counterparts.

Lanefan

 

[delericho]

Which raises the question of where you would find a +1 sword because in my worlds there aren't "weapon shops". Martial weapons are always bespoke, not bought from a rack in a store.

I would have thought that those swordcrafters capable of creating such legendary weapons would themselves become famous, like Hattori Hanzo or Domingo Montoya. Just don't kill them afterwards.

 

[Guest 6801328]

Just as a thought experiment, what items in our world would be roughly equivalent to magical items, in terms of rarity, desirability, etc.? Are there any?

Artwork spring to mind, but magic items are typically useful things, or at least things that have a use. I mean, maybe there are wealthy magic item "collectors"...

Another category would be "tools made by famous dead people". Like Stradivarius violins, or various japanese blacksmiths (most notably plane blades*). That still doesn't feel quite right to me.

Any other ideas?

*In '99 I thought I had acquired one of the last plane blades to ever be made by one famous Japanese smith, but after I received it my dealer asked me to send it back for inspection. It turns out the smith's son did most of the work because the father was just unable to do the work anymore. I missed getting the last blade he ever made by one.

 

[Krachek]

5ed give no support to “competitive play” level.
The overall game is set on “entertainment play” level.
Sane magic item price fall in the competitive play requirement.
The overall popularity of 5ed show that the entertainment play level is what people are looking for.

 

[delericho]

Just as a thought experiment, what items in our world would be roughly equivalent to magical items, in terms of rarity, desirability, etc.? Are there any?

It actually depends on your philosophical view of magic items. If you view them as genuine wonders, there isn't really anything - maybe those rare blades and instruments you mention, but perhaps not. But if you take a more utilitarian view of magic, where a magic sword is just a better sword, then there are plenty of examples. One that immediately springs to mind would be those top-end custom gaming PCs that you can spend thousands on.

(And it's perhaps worth noting that those PCs also have the same "hamster wheel" as the 3e-style magic items, although for a slightly different reason - to stay with "the best", you have to keep upgrading, but with the PCs it's because the technology keeps improving, while for PCs it's because better magic items become affordable...)

The overall popularity of 5ed show that the entertainment play level is what people are looking for.

That does not follow. There are many possible reasons for the success of 5e (with the most likely explanation being some combination of several). Tying it to just one, and indeed a fairly minor one, is a stretch.