D&D General No More Baldur's Gate From Larion: Team Is 'Elated'

Bad news for Baldur's Gate fans--It seems that Larion is out of the Baldur's Gate business. CEO Swen Vicke has announced that Baldur's Gate 3 is not getting any expansions, DLC, or a sequel. Patches and fixes will still continue, however, including cross-platform mod support.

"Because of all the success the obvious thing would have been to do a DLC, so we started on one. We started even thinking about BG4. But we hadn’t really had closure on BG3 yet and just to jump forward on something new felt wrong. We had also spent a whole bunch of time converting the system into a video game and we wanted to do new things. There are a lot of constraints on making D&D, and 5th Edition is not an easy system to put into a video game. We had all these ideas of new combat we wanted to try out and they were not compatible."

-Swen Vicke​

Vicke confirmed this at a talk at the Game Developers Conference, and said that Larion Studios wanted to make its own new content rather than license IP from another company.

He also clarified that a Baldur's Gate 4 was still possible, but that if it happened it would not be made by Larion. Larion is already working on its next big release.

According to IGN, Larion has started work on some BG3 DLC, but it was cancelled.

"You could see the team was doing it because everyone felt like we had to do it, but it wasn’t really coming from the heart, and we’re very much a studio from the heart. It’s what gotten us into misery and it’s also been the reasons for our success."

-Swen Vicke​

According to Vicke, when the BG3 team found out that they would not be making more Baldur's Gate content, they were 'elated'.

“I thought they were going to be angry at me because I just couldn’t muster the energy. I saw so many elated faces, which I didn’t expect, and I could tell they shared the same feelings, so we were all aligned with one another. And I’ve had so many developers come to me after and say, ‘Thank god.'"

-Swen Vicke​

​

 

[UngainlyTitan]

What is FR canon, though? WotC themselves were clear that unless it appeared in a WotC-produced 5E book, it definitely wasn't canon, and you can't even rely on adventures because they can have multiple outcomes or ways of happening.

So there's not a huge amount to break/bend.

You might be right if you said this about say, Star Wars, which maintains a very strict and clear canon, right down a guy dedicated to personally keeping track of that full time. But you are flatly wrong re: The Forgotten Realms, which has a much looser canon and which WotC themselves are quite happy to retcon or change, as they specifically expressed. Also, I love BG3, but it's grasp on FR lore and canon is... variable. There are parts where they make some deep lore cuts and it's pretty wild, and there are others where they don't seem to understand basic stuff about the FR (like that not all nor even most followers of Gond are gnomes, nor is Gond's church based primarily out of Baldur's Gate - and most of the followers of Ilmater we see would be instantly cast out of the church as horrible people with behaviours directly opposed to Ilmater's teachings, should any conventional-minded Ilmaterite cleric ever visit that place!).


Yes he was very specific that they were going to work on a number of smaller games rather than anything big initially, too. I think was because they expected BG3 to do only slightly better numbers than DOS2. Certainly other industry players (like Microsoft) likewise thought it would be a moderate success.

As of right now, it's at a minimum at 15m sales, and that's a dead minimum, because previous Larian have said DOS1 sold 2.5m copies over several years, DOS2 sold "3x DOS1" up to like 2022 (so over about 5 years), i.e. at least 7.5m (that's the lowest figure it could be), and they've now said BG3 has already sold "2x DOS2", over significantly less than a year. And all of those did that without DLC, note - DLC definitely helps the value proposition of a game, and helps it to sell by putting it and various improvements back in the news, but eventually it just becomes part of the package, and 3+ years on, you're probably selling mostly on the strength of the base game (unless DLC just game out, like Cyberpunk 2077!).

More recent comments from Swen and others seem to suggest that rather than working on several smaller projects, they were working on one big one which will "dwarf BG3" (what exactly he meant by this is hard to say), presumably alongside the DLC, so are now presumably all working on the big DLC.

This would certainly tally with the elation and so on - I don't think being on the team left making DLC whilst the rest of the company works on some (presumably amazing-seeming) mega-game (presumably a CRPG given Swen directly compared it to BG3, rather than saying it would be "very different" or something, he simply said it would be much bigger) would have been making people very happy, nor would delaying an extremely cool game for months or years to get out DLC for an already-excellent game that doesn't even really have a DLC-shaped hole in it. It's a bit they made the epilogue hint at DLC - I wonder if they'll change that when they add the additional ending material they've talked about about.

Do you have any hard reference to someone from Larian saying that they are working on a DLC. Now, I will admit I have not been paying close attention but all I have heard about a DLC or even a sequel has been general internet commentary. Not anything I would take seriously.

I am sure WtOC would love one but I can understand Sven's reluctance. I am not sure they could top BG3.

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Do you have any hard reference to someone from Larian saying that they are working on a DLC.

That they WERE you mean? Then yes.

Larian Started Work on Baldur's Gate 3 DLC, Then Canceled It: 'The Studio Was Elated' - IGN

After announcing that Larian Studios wouldn't be making Baldur's Gate 3 DLC, an expansion, or Baldur's Gate 4, director Swen Vincke revealed that Larian had actually begun work on planned downloadable content before ultimately deciding to cancel it because the team's heart wasn't in it.

www.ign.com

They started work on one and then gave up - explicitly stated.

 

[UngainlyTitan]

That they WERE you mean? Then yes.

Larian Started Work on Baldur's Gate 3 DLC, Then Canceled It: 'The Studio Was Elated' - IGN

After announcing that Larian Studios wouldn't be making Baldur's Gate 3 DLC, an expansion, or Baldur's Gate 4, director Swen Vincke revealed that Larian had actually begun work on planned downloadable content before ultimately deciding to cancel it because the team's heart wasn't in it.

www.ign.com

They started work on one and then gave up - explicitly stated.

Thanks, that is interesting.

 

[Henadic Theologian]

That they WERE you mean? Then yes.

Larian Started Work on Baldur's Gate 3 DLC, Then Canceled It: 'The Studio Was Elated' - IGN

After announcing that Larian Studios wouldn't be making Baldur's Gate 3 DLC, an expansion, or Baldur's Gate 4, director Swen Vincke revealed that Larian had actually begun work on planned downloadable content before ultimately deciding to cancel it because the team's heart wasn't in it.

www.ign.com

They started work on one and then gave up - explicitly stated.

I know Swen says it wasn't WotC fault, but I find that hard to swallow given that they already started working on it, the fan demand is huge and they know it, and that a lot of folks were expecting it thanks to the addition of the epilog party straight up setting DLCs or a sequel to be made.

To add to this his statement on WotC owning BG3 and its characters raises the surprising question of can WotC use BG3's game engine?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

I know Swen says it wasn't WotC fault, but I find that hard to swallow given that they already started working on it, the fan demand is huge and they know it, and that a lot of folks were expecting it thanks to the addition of the epilog party straight up setting DLCs or a sequel to be made.

To add to this his statement on WotC owning BG3 and its characters raises the surprising question of can WotC use BG3's game engine?

I mean, Swen is obviously being diplomatic, and I suspect it's one of things, where, on one level, it's true, and on another, it's obviously bollocks.

Specifically Swen criticised WotC/Hasbro for firing a bunch of people, criticised that general behaviour and approach to game/product development, and then, just a few days after WotC had given an interview saying they were "happy for Larian to take their time" - i.e. indicating that WotC thought Larian were working on something for them (because they were), Swen said they'd shut down work on a DLC, and weren't working a BG4, and has appeared to rule out future collaboration (in more vague terms).

So when he says this:

#

I think here we can see two things:

1) Swen is damning them with faint praise - "done their best" isn't saying a lot (in fact it's something you say when someone is a screw-up!) and "been a great licensor" basically means they didn't cause problems for Larian. I mean, both are nice, but neither is exactly a moving tribute to how cool they were to work with or anything.

2) Swen seems to be saying WotC very intentionally, when he knows Hasbro are the main people who he criticised. That's all Hasbro decision-making.

Note for example Josh Sawyer's tweet:

Specifies HASBRO - and I think Swen is more politely doing the same thing by specifying WotC as being decent to work with, but not mentioning Hasbro who are behind all the stuff he complained about, and who ultimately they'd be making money for.

 

[Sulicius]

I know Swen says it wasn't WotC fault, but I find that hard to swallow given that they already started working on it, the fan demand is huge and they know it, and that a lot of folks were expecting it thanks to the addition of the epilog party straight up setting DLCs or a sequel to be made.

To add to this his statement on WotC owning BG3 and its characters raises the surprising question of can WotC use BG3's game engine?

They also have a track record of never making DLC, so is it so hard to swallow?

I think people need to understand that not every game needs DLC. There’s thousands of great games you can play! Move on. Find something else. Larian doesn’t owe us anything. They are in a good financial situation and they want to make something else. Be happy for them! That is a game developer’s dream.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Larian doesn’t owe us anything.

Did anyone say they did?

Be happy for them!

Did anyone say they weren't?

 

[Henadic Theologian]

I mean, Swen is obviously being diplomatic, and I suspect it's one of things, where, on one level, it's true, and on another, it's obviously bollocks.

Specifically Swen criticised WotC/Hasbro for firing a bunch of people, criticised that general behaviour and approach to game/product development, and then, just a few days after WotC had given an interview saying they were "happy for Larian to take their time" - i.e. indicating that WotC thought Larian were working on something for them (because they were), Swen said they'd shut down work on a DLC, and weren't working a BG4, and has appeared to rule out future collaboration (in more vague terms).

So when he says this:

View attachment 353583#

I think here we can see two things:

1) Swen is damning them with faint praise - "done their best" isn't saying a lot (in fact it's something you say when someone is a screw-up!) and "been a great licensor" basically means they didn't cause problems for Larian. I mean, both are nice, but neither is exactly a moving tribute to how cool they were to work with or anything.

2) Swen seems to be saying WotC very intentionally, when he knows Hasbro are the main people who he criticised. That's all Hasbro decision-making.

Note for example Josh Sawyer's tweet:

View attachment 353586

Specifies HASBRO - and I think Swen is more politely doing the same thing by specifying WotC as being decent to work with, but not mentioning Hasbro who are behind all the stuff he complained about, and who ultimately they'd be making money for.

Damn good catch.

 

[Sulicius]

Did anyone say they did?

Did anyone say they weren't?

Yeah sorry, not in this thread but I have seen people online who are of the opinion Larian gave us an unfinished game.

 

[Vael]

And it should be noted that they are still working on the base game:

Larian's saying goodbye to Baldur's Gate 3 by giving us some 'really evil' endings

Even though the studio is planning to move on to new things, it's not done with BG3 yet.

www.pcgamer.com

Which ... again, for any other company, this would practically be DLC/extra content to be paid for.