D&D General No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures

[doctorbadwolf]

I'm pretty sure that BLM (amongst many others) does (rightly) not make such distinctions.

By any measure, the grievances that lead to the formation of the BLM movement exist in the modern world.

The rest is just anti-inclusive weasel rhetoric that serves only as a sad attempt to delegitimize anti-racism and other forms of inclusive social justice. Probably smarter to not go down that road.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

You do know France was invaded by Nazis in WW2 who begun a repression of French resistance?
The french decision to adopt a defensive strategy and its subsequent failure when the French Republic surrended - giving up their entire army as effective prisoners of war - has become a stereotype of the effete nature of the French.
It may not be quite as prominent as it use to be, but it is modern era.

Firstly, none of that is the same sort of thing as being oppressed because they’re French. They got invaded by an expansionist power seeking dominion over the continent.

Secondly, jokes about that time your country surrendered are crappy, but they aren’t oppression, and using that to whatabout at actual oppression and marginalization happening in the world right now, which is what I was replying to, is even worse behavior.

 

[Scribe]

And honestly, looked at in that light, I see absolutely zero problem with sentences which I suspect will disappear from the game in the next iteration due to mostly external pressure, such as:

• The evil deities who created other races, though, made those races to serve them. Those races have strong inborn tendencies that match the nature of their gods. Most orcs share the violent, savage nature of the orc gods, and are thus inclined toward evil. Even if an orc chooses a good alignment, it struggles against its innate tendencies for its entire life. (Even half-orcs feel the lingering pull of the orc god’s influence.)
• Orcs are savage raiders and pillagers with stooped postures, low foreheads, and piggish faces with prominent lower canines that resemble tusks. [and all the rest of the Gruumsh story which is great to show how his anger came from being last and rejected]

Beyond this, I think we are going to see a dramatic shift next time Gods are talked about at all, exactly because of what you are outlining here.

 

[Lyxen]

By any measure, the grievances that lead to the formation of the BLM movement exist in the modern world.

The rest is just anti-inclusive weasel rhetoric that serves only as a sad attempt to delegitimize anti-racism and other forms of inclusive social justice. Probably smarter to not go down that road.

I'm sorry, is this from the same person who thinks it's OK to make fun of French people for being the only one to think that we have not been marginalised even in modern times ? You have a very bizarre attitude to think that you are holding the moral high ground here, my friend.

And beyond that, you are being extremely insulting towards my opinions with the labels that you are putting there, even though I have told you that I have been personally ostracised and marginalised for being french in my carrer. Not everything happens in the US, you know ? So I will expect immediate apologies.

 

[Lyxen]

Beyond this, I think we are going to see a dramatic shift next time Gods are talked about at all, exactly because of what you are outlining here.

I agree, and it makes me sad, because they are a huge part of the mythology and settings, and again that "blandism" wave threatens a source of drama and story and fantasy just because in some cases it has had dramatic consequences in the real world for reasons which were actually much more often economic than really religious (and was certainly not linked to "evil gods").

And again, as a French, we have the stain of the Saint Barthelemy in our history, and that one was at its core extremely economic in nature and had nothing to do with the notion of "evil gods".

 

[doctorbadwolf]

I will expect immediate apologies.

No. Your expectation is unreasonable, and thus will be ignored.

 

[Azuresun]

The sad thing for me, is that people arguing against this mostly do not argue about the basis that having been created by evil deities, the creatures have therefore created a savage culture of raiders and murderers. They argue because these are orcs, and because of the other stereotypes about orcs from other medias than D&D. There are cultures like this in Glorantha (and coming from really savage and evil deities), but people don't object because they are not linked to any real earth stereotype...

It does always seem to be orcs and drow that get fixated on, doesn't it*? For me, it's telling that the same sort of reaction isn't provoked by fiends or hags, or even ogres and giants.

 

[Faolyn]

It does always seem to be orcs and drow that get fixated on, doesn't it*? For me, it's telling that the same sort of reaction isn't provoked by fiends or hags, or even ogres and giants.

Orcs and drow are playable. Those other creatures aren't. They're also more human than any of those other races.

Also, fiends are literally made of evil in D&D, and hags are (currently) fey and thus have their own purple and orange morality. Ogres and giants could definitely benefit from having a wider range of alignments, though.

 

[Lyxen]

No. Your expectation is unreasonable, and thus will be ignored.

Alright, this just proves that, in addition to having no arguments in this thread, you are stereotyping people in a horrid manner despite all your claims and insults, therefore losing any credibility about discussing stereotypes and their use. But please, do continue showing your biases and personal stereotyping, I'm sure they will help people truly understand your fascinating perspectives on the subject.

 

[Lyxen]

It does always seem to be orcs and drow that get fixated on, doesn't it*? For me, it's telling that the same sort of reaction isn't provoked by fiends or hags, or even ogres and giants.

Or even other humanoids, for example goblins, kobolds, hobgoblins, etc. which are common enough in fantasy folklore, but did not suffer of the specific biases of orcs and drows.

Orcs and drow are playable. Those other creatures aren't. They're also more human than any of those other races.

See above, hobgoblins are also playable and are never mentioned. But then, their skin has always been orange to some degree...

Also, fiends are literally made of evil in D&D, and hags are (currently) fey and thus have their own purple and orange morality. Ogres and giants could definitely benefit from having a wider range of alignments, though.

Alignment is guidelines anyway, and nothing prevents a DM from having monsters and NPCs of almost any alignment (except for fiends where the PH is fairly specific, there can not be non-lawful evil devils for example).

On the contrary, ever since the first appearances of the drow, there have been non evil drows, these are listed in encounters in Erelhei-Cinlu in Vault of the Drow...