D&D General No More "Humans in Funny Hats": Racial Mechanics Should Determine Racial Cultures

[Faolyn]

This is why the ability scores should be renamed. I'm sorry, but when I see two characters, one with a Strength of 10 and another with a Strength of 16, I feel the one with the higher Strength should actually be stronger. As it is, if the Strength 10 guy has powerful build, he is literally stronger than the other character. It would be easier if they just gave the ability scores different names, or no names at all.

Yeah. If ability score called 'strength' doesn't measure how strong a creature is, something has gone wrong.

A creature with a Strength of 10 and Powerful Build can lift/carry/push/drag more than a creature with a Strength of 16 and no Powerful Build, but the Strength 10 creature will be worse at attacks and damage from Strength-based weapons, as well as at Strength saves, Athletics checks, and anything else that requires the Strength score, like bending bars and lifting gates.

In terms of D&D, the Strength 16 creature will always be stronger than the Strength 10 creature, even if the Strength 10 creature can lift more.

 

[Faolyn]

Did I say they would or is this just you making things up again?

Yep. When you whined about things being updated. The only way that matters is if you're forced to use the updated rules. So I have to assume that you're being forced into using them, possibly at Bohemian earspoon-point.

Wait, you're not being forced into using these rules? Then why do you even care? Don't buy the updated books. Don't play with the updated rules.

Zero chance, as it utterly misses the difference.

How would you know until you try? After all, you had no problem with a nonhuman paladin.

 

[Scribe]

Yep. When you whined about things being updated. The only way that matters is if you're forced to use the updated rules. So I have to assume that you're being forced into using them, possibly at Bohemian earspoon-point.

Wait, you're not being forced into using these rules? Then why do you even care? Don't buy the updated books. Don't play with the updated rules.

Wait, your not forced to use the rules?

Stop the presses, literally nothing needs to be commented on ever again. Shut down the forum.

How would you know until you try? After all, you had no problem with a nonhuman paladin.

I did try. Several characters. "Hmm well since ASI just goes wherever I want, I dont need to worry about that, what race provides the best rules?"

Very simple, very unsatisfying.

 

[Vaalingrade]

D&D's STR is analogous to DBZ Scouter Levels.

It's less about strength and more about COMBAT POWER.

Like, being a body builder doesn't make you more accurate with a sword or even better at jumping and climbing, at least not at the levels of human strength we're talking about and not super-strength where you can apply so much force that skill doesn't matter.

 

[Scars Unseen]

being a body builder doesn't make you more accurate with a sword

Small comment on that part: it's not a measure of accuracy because you aren't rolling to see if you make physical contact; you're rolling to see if you do damage to the hit point pool, which is a weird abstraction that isn't strictly a measure of physical health. There are edge cases you could cite on times you're rolling attack for something that doesn't strictly do damage, but that's less a redefinition of what the attack roll is and more the result of decades worth of broadening the tasks the game tries to accomplish while insisting on only having a hammer in its toolbelt.

Either way, strength is strength. It says so in the PHB of every edition that has a PHB. If it doesn't conform to your understanding of how strength scales for specific tasks, that's because D&D isn't a simulationist game system despite the high level of crunch.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Like most attempts at simulations, D&D says strength is strength, but doesn't actually understand how it works.

 

[Minigiant]

I would say lifting stuff is about the most general use of strength there is.

I would think pushing and pulling is.

Lifting is the general way to show and measure strength.

But in general, strength is force in a direction. Not just against gravity.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I would think pushing and pulling is.

Lifting is the general way to show and measure strength.

But in general, strength is force in a direction. Not just against gravity.

Fair enough. In any case, force in a direction means strength much more clearly than damage added to melee weapons. Strength really should be renamed "Melee Attack Power".

 

[Minigiant]

Fair enough. In any case, force in a direction means strength much more clearly than damage added to melee weapons. Strength really should be renamed "Melee Attack Power".

It really shouldn't.

Strength is the ability score for average muscle power.

However, characters have different muscles. And there are different muscles. Arm muscles. Leg muscles. etc.

And if races are not just alternate humans, their muscles and skeletons would have different focus.
And this is the point.

If races are not humans in funny hats, they would use ability scores differently.

A squat dwarf or gnome would have bonus to Strength saving throws do to their lower center of gravity and thick leg muscles.
A goliath's height and giant-like structure would make them better at throwing and swinging weapons with two hands.
A minotaur's bull legs would let them support more weight and make charges with great power.
Whereas an orc's rippling muscle on muscle lets them make bonus attack and movement when fresh.

For example when I DM, I edited minotaurs, orcs, dragonborn, and human enemies when "charging"

Human can charges normally.

Minotaurs naturally lean forward when charging. They can only attack with their horns when charging. However a minotaur can add their STR modifier to damage rolls for every 20 feet they charge before attacking with their horns.

Orcs slump forward when standing. Half orcs less so. however when they charge, their feet pull them upright. This extends the use of their arms for attacks and their Strength score is increased by 6 when charging. They however have trouble stopping and must make a STR save to stop and not crash into things.

A dragonborn not wearing a not wearing a heavy load can bend into a dragon's gait by expending their breath weapon magic and get advantage to a single weapon attack and reroll a single damage die with one of their breath weapon die.

Players learned the quirks of the race's charges and the early engagement of a fight is intense.

 

[Scars Unseen]

For example when I DM, I edited minotaurs, orcs, dragonborn, and human enemies when "charging"

Those changes are fine for a table specific house rule and for use with monsters, but it's way too fiddly to work for a published work that is meant to be used by players (in general, I'd say fiddly and quirky exceptions like that work far better for monster design than character design). They also feel like they'd fit in far better in a game closer to 4E on the tactical focus scale than 5E. Which, if that's what you're going for anyway, is great.

A lot of your take on strength is too simulationist for D&D in my opinion. The entire point of the strength score is as a somewhat abstract approximation of "bodily power, athletic training, and the extent to which you can exert raw physical force." It's not meant to be disected quite the way you are because ability scores are mostly meant to fade into the background of calculations anyway so that focus can be placed more firmly on other, more immediately relevant features such as class abilities.

Addressing the race abilities you gave:

Dwarf: explicitly worse than having a strength bonus, as it's just a strength bonus with almost no common usage, and no player directed usage, which an automatic fail for ability design in my book (unless you make passive abilities one knob that every race design gets in addition to active abilities). Now, give the dwarf a strength bonus and the strength save bonus, and you have something that makes them stand out. Still need an active ability so the player has something they can actually use, but again, I'm just evaluating the ability you gave.

Goliath: similar issue. A strength bonus would accomplish both of these things and more, so you're just making a weaker strength bonus.

Minotaur: a bit better with the charge bonus (depending on what the bonus was and how you interpret "charge"), but it's still mostly just lesser strength. Give a strength bonus, a gore attack, and maybe the ability to use their horns with any ability or spell that requires a melee weapon attack, and you have a combination you'd be wary of closing in on even if they were a wizard.

Orc: probably the best of the bunch. Nothing that's trying to emulate one aspect of strength mechanically(despite the description). "When fresh" seems like a limiter that needs clarification. I can't say it really evokes "orc" to me in any real way, but then again, who's to say all orcs have to be the same in all campaigns?