D&D General No One Reads Conan Now -- So What Are They Reading?

[TiQuinn]

I'm glad to answer that, being a fan of Ravenloft and Gothic literature. It's because Gothic literature is about the world of the ordered and ordinary being terrorized by the inhuman and bizarre. This story is full of alien characters who each one on their own could have a book talking about who and what they are. But they're likely just going to be thrown into things and we'll have to just run with it. And that's not Gothic lit to me.

In Army of Darkness, Ash works as a character because he's an outsider playing against the tropes of the world. A whole group of characters like Ash, but who have radically different backgrounds, would be utterly chaotic.

In the Sailor on the Seas of Fate, you have a lot of different characters coming together, and that's the whole point of the story, so this can work. But that's not Gothic literature.

Ravenloft is not strictly Gothic horror anymore, and probably never really was just Gothic horror. It’s expanded to include folk horror, disaster horror, body horror, cosmic horror, and so on.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Elric is the king of brooding...

On this I do agree lol

Why not?

It depends on why one goes to Ravenloft. And this has been discussed extensively. I may just read the book to see what it is all about. But my misgivings come from things like the cover, like the fact that it is a whole party of characters (I think the best Ravenloft books stick to one or two main characters), that Ravenloft is meant to be human centric. You can have other characters brought in from other worlds. Knight of the Black Rose did this, and that story followed a lycanthrope and a death knight around, and it was a monster rally story. It can work. I'm not going to get super enthusiastic though about a party made up of a half-orc, teifling, a kenku, etc. I am sure this was handed to the writer, so it still could be good if the writer is good. But the way they have been dealing with Ravenloft it looks like they are moving it away from the whole gothic and classic horror and more towards a multi-genre horror setting (the cover gives me more Underworld vibes or Vampire the Masquerade vibes than Ravenloft vibes if that makes sense). If that were the cover of a Jim Butcher novel, I'd probably pick it up if I were still reading the series (there was nothing bad about the series, I just petered out by like the 6th or 7th book). There is a little too much attitude with the characters for me in a Ravenloft story

 

[SteveC]

avenloft is not strictly Gothic horror anymore, and probably never really was just Gothic horror. It’s expanded to include folk horror, disaster horror, body horror, cosmic horror, and so on.

Oh sure. I just look at that group and see a movie made by James Gunn. And as much as I like his films, I don't think they work for Ravenloft. And as you say, Ravenloft is changing, and those changes, in general, make it much less interesting to me. Pretty much something I've no interest in.

 

[Bedrockgames]

Oh sure. I just look at that group and see a movie made by James Gunn. And as much as I like his films, I don't think they work for Ravenloft. And as you say, Ravenloft is changing, and those changes, in general, make it much less interesting to me. Pretty much something I've no interest in.

Yeah Ravenloft's big appeal when they put out the boxed using the old module as a foundation, was gothic horror and classic horror. It was for people who largely liked older horror movies, who had an interest in stuff like Frankenstein. And it contrasted itself with the more gorey horror that was popular at the time. I like that stuff too. But I grew up watching universal horror movies and once I found Ravenloft I got deep into gothic horror, so the setting loses a lot of its sizzle for me when it just becomes a generic horror setting. And they did incorporate other elements over the years but it was a pretty conservative approach (like the one taken in the Guide to the Created for bringing Mike Myers type figures-----the black box is outright hostile to the slasher genre). But Ravenloft is all about mood and atmosphere, classic horror tropes, the slow building of horror. I think the one genre that does fit Ravenloft and can be folded in more organically is body horror because its approach to building horror works very well with that (and even one of the adventure seeds in the black box was body horror inspired by alien)

 

[Tonguez]

You're talking about something different then what I am. Of course fantasies of physical power and righteous violence haven't gone anywhere--they're basically the basis of most adventure fiction (and their appeal is hardly limited to men). What I'm talking about is the tension of civilized vs uncivilized as the theme of said violence. Spider-man punches people, but no one is ever like "then came Peter Parker, from the far-off land of Queens, New York, to crawl the spires of Manhattan with the mighty fingers he earned surviving that savage borough."

If you're not interested in that particular power fantasy, you've got no reason to have an interest in Conan instead of the ten million other examples of adventure fiction where heroic figures enact righteous violence.



Case in point--the only one of those characters who seems even slightly similar to Conan to me is Wolverine. Mad Max is an inverted Conan--he's more civilized then anyone else in the wasteland (note the bit where he uses the knowledge of first aid that he was trained in when he was in the police to save Furiosa). The DCEU Aquaman is doing the sword-in-the-stone thing, the man raised in obscurity who turns out to be the true king, which is a totally different trope. John Wick is the best assassin from a society of assassins. Geralt is a Witcher, a position society relies on to protect them from uncivilized monsters, even if they don't necessarily like it.

Wolverine is Conan-like, in that his wildness, his berserker rage and feral instincts, are positioned as giving him advantages the other X-Men don't have. But he's a much weaker example then Conan himself, as is Jack Reacher. My point isn't that this fantasy is entirely gone, but that it holds much less appeal in the modern day then it once did.

In REH's conception Civilisation is decadent, treacherous and corrupt, whereas Conan as Barbarian is Honest, Direct and self reliant. Conan in the books uses Wit and Determination as much as Physique to overcome challenges and survive against overwhelming odds - remember he started life as a thief before rising to become a Warrior and then King by his own hand ie not relying on institutional status or gods. Conan is not about might makes right at all - he's about determination and fearlessness to overcome the corruption of civilisation and to thus claim freedom or to choose the crown and have it weigh heavy on his brow - is that Batman?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Conan as Barbarian is Honest

He is a thief who uses deception and murder to get himself a position of responsibility, solely to steal some jewels for himself. Because he wants them. Funny definition of “honest”.

 

[Micah Sweet]

Ravenloft is not strictly Gothic horror anymore, and probably never really was just Gothic horror. It’s expanded to include folk horror, disaster horror, body horror, cosmic horror, and so on.

Ok, but if you prefer Ravenloft as Gothic horror, then something like this new book might understandably not appeal to them.

 

[Micah Sweet]

He is a thief who uses deception and murder to get himself a position of responsibility, solely to steal some jewels for himself. Because he wants them. Funny definition of “honest”.

Perhaps honest with their intentions?

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Perhaps honest with their intentions?

I want this thing. I have the power to take this thing. Therefore I have the right to take this thing.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I want this thing. I have the power to take this thing. Therefore I have the right to take this thing.

I don't think anyone is asking you to like Conan.