No Random treasure !?!?...

[Imperialus]

I must say this was one 4E gripe I never saw coming. I've been using wishlists in my game for ages and never had a problem with them. I hated random treasure, you'd end up with weird random collections of crap that never served a purpose, someone mentioned Owlbears and fine china a while back I think. I guess that creates a sense of wonder... but not the good kind. It's more along the lines of "Huh? That's stupid."

Why do you think most published adventures (for as long as I can remember) had set treasure? It might not always mesh with your party but it was set, and in the good modules (especially more recent ones) it was usually there for a reason. The knight was wearing +2 full plate, because he was a freaking knight, and the goblins had 200 gold coins and a set of silverware because they just robbed a merchant ect, ect. Rolling randomly just confuses the hell out of things.

 

[Old Gumphrey]

WTF is going on here, in the DMG...Is this the first edition of D&D that doesn't include a random treasure generator?

I can't beleive some of the suggestions for handing out treasure, the worst one is this...Have your players give you a wish list (5 items) and pick an item from the list in an upcoming adventure!!! Imagine their surprise when they find the item they have on their list in an upcoming adventure... I mean seriously what's the fun in that? OK DM these are the items aI really like, sdo something about it. Deus Ex Mechanica anyone???

A lot of the random stocking dungeons was to spark your imagination and find out how exactly that item got there. Then use that to inspire your story for the dungeon.

Now we are just supposed to pick items that would excite your players and items they can actually use. So, I need to put a Warlock item in a dungeon although the story or the dungeon inhabitants might not have any probable reason to find or use these items.

Also there's no more ID'ing items, you just know exactly what bonus they give and power they have automatically. WTF???

If I ever play 4ed at the store, I will definitely ask for wish lists and then make sure none of those treasures ever make it into my games...

Last thing, it say in a paragraph that magic item shops are rare and whatnot and the next sentence it says that you should generally be able to find the magic item you want to buy??? Where the hell is the mystery? Seriously this is one of the few sections of the new game I can't abide buy, there is just no effing way...

If this guy was the only DM in the area, I wouldn't play.

 

[danzig138]

"Well, those owlbears lived in their own filth, but hey! They did own a set of fine china and a beautiful tapestry."

or "For some reason, that ogre chose to attack you with a broken off piece of a table leg, but hey! He did have a shiny +2 Halberd in his treasure pile. He must not have wanted to risk nicking it on your helm."

That's poor gamemastering, not a problem with random treasure. The china would be smashed up. The tapestry would be fouled, but posisbly repairable, and you can bet that the ogre would beat the crap out of you with the halberd (and maybe a broken table leg at the same time). If you have intelligent bad guys, but they don't use the treasure in their possession, that's a bad job on your part. Yes, that may mean the players won't come out with as much as possible. Oh well.

I think if you want something special, some specific item, make it yourself. If that's not an option, find someone who can and meet their price, be it money, or gems, or whores and ale. And no, you won't be able to offload your assortment of magical crap in any town you walk into. You get what you get. Some of it might be useful, some of it might not be, and some of it might be, but not obviously. Make your way to a large enough city, say Greyhawk, and you might be able to offload some of it.

No random treasure? This isn't my D&D any more. But it doesn't have to be. Hope everyone else has fun with it.

 

[theNater]

...or they'll have to try and use the item and see what happens.

What do you think the characters are doing during the short rest in which they identify the item? Staring at it until the details of its abilities imprint themselves onto their brains?

No, they're trying it on, taking swings with it, trying out likely command words, hopping on one foot while the item is equipped, and so on until it does something. Then they have seen what it does, so they know its properties. The character may not know the name of the item, but once they know what it does, you may as well tell the player the name for ease of record-keeping.

...some minor items aren't "identified" until they're used, not always with the intended result. Example: a potion that people assume to be healing turns out to be invisibility...party pours it into a dying character and he disappears...

Adding exactly what to the game? Is the combat insufficiently challenging that the players need a random chance of not healing a dying ally to keep it interesting?

No random treasure? This isn't my D&D any more. But it doesn't have to be. Hope everyone else has fun with it.

There are no random treasure tables. The recommended way to distribute loot is to make use of player wishlists. However, random treasure is pretty easy.

Example: I'm putting together an encounter. I intend to include a 2nd level item in the treasure. I scan through the treasure tables in the PHB. There are 11 2nd level magic items. I roll a d12, with the understanding that if I get a 12 I'll reroll. I get a 7. I go through the lists one more time, counting as I go. Item 7 is a Staff of Fiery Might. Done. Took me less than a minute.

Of course, if I'd gotten a kind of weapon or armor I'd have to make another roll to determine what the base item was, but I have a d6(for armor type or weapon category) and dice of appropriate sizes for each weapon category(categories have 10, 17, 4, 3, 2, and 1 weapons in them, so the only thing that might require rerolls is the d20 used for military melee weapons).

 

[Grazzt]

I can't beleive some of the suggestions for handing out treasure, the worst one is this...Have your players give you a wish list (5 items) and pick an item from the list in an upcoming adventure!!! Imagine their surprise when they find the item they have on their list in an upcoming adventure... I mean seriously what's the fun in that?

Yeah. I saw that part in there. Actually thinking about blacking it out with a sharpie. It's definitely one of the goofiest ideas and one idea that will NEVER happen in my game. None of my players would ever think of that (even if they read that part). Most of my players have been with me since the 1e days so it's not an issue.

 

[beldar1215]

I haven't read the whole thread, so if someone already said this i apologize. To me it just seems like the OP is just looking for reasons not to like the system.

Beldar

 

[Doug McCrae]

Now we are just supposed to pick items that would excite your players and items they can actually use.

Nightmare.

So, I need to put a Warlock item in a dungeon although the story or the dungeon inhabitants might not have any probable reason to find or use these items.

This makes no sense. When you were rolling for random items, that served as a spur to your imagination, to come up with dungeons and stories where these items were appropriate. But when the player of a warlock, a class you will have known was in your game probably since session one, requests an item your creativity dies and you can no longer produce appropriate situations. Why not? You are the still the one designing those dungeons and stories. You're responsible for whether they make sense.

If I ever play 4ed at the store, I will definitely ask for wish lists and then make sure none of those treasures ever make it into my games...

This is the worst idea in your post, and that's impressive cause it's up against some serious competition.

 

[Doug McCrae]

How do these PC's know all these magic items exist and with special properties and where to find them in the game? I mean how do they know about every single magic item in the PHB in the game if its a points of light setting and civilization is found few and far between?

Not only does my fighter PC know about an Holy Avenger, Lightning, Resounding, Lifedrinker, Terror, Thunderburst, etc.

The players know about these things, the PCs don't.

Now when a PC doesn't get a cool weapon (or whatever) they'll look directly at me and ask me why, John has one, and Ralph, but what about me eh???

As a DM I use the dice to "help" me decide what magic is available in a dungeon and keeps me from playing favorites.

Making decisions is hard but as a DM you have to do it, otherwise why are you there? You were already making all sorts of other decisions that risked favouring one PC over another such as NPC reactions and who monsters attack.

I mean low level stuff I could care less but a special magic item should be few and far between.

Artefacts are still in the DMG.

 

[WayneLigon]

Yeah. I saw that part in there. Actually thinking about blacking it out with a sharpie. It's definitely one of the goofiest ideas and one idea that will NEVER happen in my game. None of my players would ever think of that (even if they read that part). Most of my players have been with me since the 1e days so it's not an issue.

I can't imagine they never tell you what they'd like to find. Being somewhat accomodating means fewer 'well, we need to find a magic store and see what we can get exchanged', or 'Dang. Maybe someday we'll find a magic weapon I can actually use; toss it in with the others' conversations.

A list like that gives you a good idea of what to really dangle in front of people. "Oh? You won't take the job? Your perogative, of course, but I must tell you that I have a contact that can deliver to me the Sword of Sanar; the tomes say that it can burst into flames, if you can beleive that."

 

[Andur]

I guess some of you folks have never used a published adventure, or if you have changed a bit of treasure, "well, it says it is a Spear of BBEG slaying, too bad Bob you have put 12 feats into being an uber hand axe guy. Yes you'll do more damage with your hand axes, but this spear is designed for the BBEG..."

I'm sure Scott, you take into account your player's, their likes, dislikes, and of course needs when lacing treasure out before them.

As far as HERO/Gurps, what do you think 4e is? All Characters are "built" on the "same premise" (standard array, powers are all "equal" for any given point level level, and neither had Wish)

In closing I'd lke to say, if you have to rely on rolling on random tables in order to DM, you are rollplaying and not roleplaying as a DM.