No Random treasure !?!?...

[Blustar]

WTF is going on here, in the DMG...Is this the first edition of D&D that doesn't include a random treasure generator?

I can't beleive some of the suggestions for handing out treasure, the worst one is this...Have your players give you a wish list (5 items) and pick an item from the list in an upcoming adventure!!! Imagine their surprise when they find the item they have on their list in an upcoming adventure... I mean seriously what's the fun in that? OK DM these are the items aI really like, sdo something about it. Deus Ex Mechanica anyone???

A lot of the random stocking dungeons was to spark your imagination and find out how exactly that item got there. Then use that to inspire your story for the dungeon.

Now we are just supposed to pick items that would excite your players and items they can actually use. So, I need to put a Warlock item in a dungeon although the story or the dungeon inhabitants might not have any probable reason to find or use these items.

Also there's no more ID'ing items, you just know exactly what bonus they give and power they have automatically. WTF???

If I ever play 4ed at the store, I will definitely ask for wish lists and then make sure none of those treasures ever make it into my games...

Last thing, it say in a paragraph that magic item shops are rare and whatnot and the next sentence it says that you should generally be able to find the magic item you want to buy??? Where the hell is the mystery? Seriously this is one of the few sections of the new game I can't abide buy, there is just no effing way...

 

[GoodKingJayIII]

With this edition at least, the new paradigm is to give players items their characters will find useful, rather than dump a whole bunch of random stuff into their laps, orchestrate a way for them to sell it, then buy the equipment they want.

I look at it like cutting out the middle man.

That said, I think giving out random treasure wouldn't be that difficult. Look at your PCs levels, look at the appropriate treasure bundle, flip through the PHB, find any item of the appropriate level, and give it to them. Short of rolling dice, that seems pretty random.

 

[Boarstorm]

A lot of the random stocking dungeons was to spark your imagination and find out how exactly that item got there. Then use that to inspire your story for the dungeon.

So, I need to put a Warlock item in a dungeon although the story or the dungeon inhabitants might not have any probable reason to find or use these items.

Um. Why not apply the principle learned in the first instance to the second?

And maybe your warlock player actually would appreciate finding an item that benefits him instead of some random bit of crap no one in the party can use anyway?

 

[Asmor]

If I ever play 4ed at the store, I will definitely ask for wish lists and then make sure none of those treasures ever make it into my games...

Asking for wishlists: Totally cool.

Not using wishlists: Totally cool.

Asking for wishlists and then using them against players: Juvenile and petty.

 

[Felon]

A lot of the random stocking dungeons was to spark your imagination and find out how exactly that item got there. Then use that to inspire your story for the dungeon.

Now we are just supposed to pick items that would excite your players and items they can actually use. So, I need to put a Warlock item in a dungeon although the story or the dungeon inhabitants might not have any probable reason to find or use these items.

So, when a random treasure generator gave you a Pillowcase of Endless Shrimp, that sparked your imagination and inspired a story, but you can't do the same for an item the party could actually use? Help me out here.

Also there's no more ID'ing items, you just know exactly what bonus they give and power they have automatically. WTF???

Having the players rely on the identify spell didn't make the game more mysterious. That was just annoying.

 

[Felon]

Asking for wishlists: Totally cool.

Not using wishlists: Totally cool.

Asking for wishlists and then using them against players: Juvenile and petty.

Sounds about right.

 

[Otterscrubber]

WTF is going on here, in the DMG...Is this the first edition of D&D that doesn't include a random treasure generator?

.....

If I ever play 4ed at the store, I will definitely ask for wish lists and then make sure none of those treasures ever make it into my games...

Every edition of D&D has a random treasure generator, they are usually referred to as the DM.

You don't want anyone to tell you what treasure to give to your players, but you want a table to tell you? This doesn't make a whole lotta sense to me.

 

[Regicide]

I look at it like cutting out the middle man.

They already cut out the middle man by having the create magic item ritual be a vending machine, and identify magic item taking 5 minutes. Adding inappropriate loot for a dungeon because your players want it is roasting the middleman and having him for lunch. It also begs the question... how is it balanced? MUST you give the players what will benefit them most? If you don't they only get 20% from selling/breaking the item down. Thats a 5x difference.

Having the players ENCOURAGED to go "Hmm, I'm almost paragon, whats the best once-per-day item out there since I can use a second soon" seems a bit much.

 

[useridunavailable]

Personally, I kinda like the new system. In 2e, our DM always made sure we'd get mostly items we'd actually use because there was no magical Wal Mart. In 3.X, we ended up selling 90% of the random treasure we got and buying stuff we wanted (i.e., broken stuff like Belts of Battle, Circlets of Rapid Spellcasting, etc.) To me, that took a lot of the magic out of magic. I have soooo longed for the days when magic items were special, and 4e tries to bring those days back.

You can think of it this way - magic items are sufficiently rare that they're worth questing for again. You might be in the proximity of a creature with a specific item because you heard that a goblin with a flaming longsword was rumored to be haunting a stretch of road not too far out of your way while you were heading to a dungeon. Of course, it requires a little suspension of disbelief, and items are also sufficiently nerfed that they need to be distributed far too often for this type of scenarion to apply to all or even most encounters. However, it could also be that your reputation as a party of powerful do-gooders (or ne'erdowells) precedes you such that enemies with items appropriate for your level actively seek you out to eliminate the threat.

At any rate, while it may not be believeable, IMO it's still way more cool and fun than walking down to the pony keg and grabbing a carpet of flying and a cloak of invisibility before you bail.

What I don't like is that, given the scarcity of magic items, how in the holy living hell are characters only able to get one-fifth of an item's market value for it? That's just stupid. "Hey, guys, I just found this sword whose like hasn't been seen in a hundred years! Anybody wanna give me 2 bucks for it?!?" Just plain dumb.

 

[Lord Sessadore]

In addition to what's been said already:

Who's forcing you to ask for wishlists? Who's forcing you to use them? Who's preventing you from making your own random treasure generator table? Who's keeping you from coming up with neat stories as to why treasure is there (which the player's never see or care about, in my experience)? What's stopping you from putting totally useless things in treasure? What's forcing you to use magic item shops, or to let the PCs automatically know what an item does?

And what have your players done to deserve you being so causelessly vindictive as to ask them for wish lists and then purposefully not give them the items they want?