Charwoman Gene
Adventurer
FadedC said:
You keep using that abbreviation. I don't think it means what you think it means. OD&D is not the same as BXCMI/RC D&D. OD&D is the 1974 game, I think BXCMI was like 1982. Rules Cyclopedia is NOT OD&D.
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D&D 4E No Roleplaying XP in 4e
- Thread starter BlindOgre
- Start date
You keep using that abbreviation. I don't think it means what you think it means. OD&D is not the same as BXCMI/RC D&D. OD&D is the 1974 game, I think BXCMI was like 1982. Rules Cyclopedia is NOT OD&D.
FadedC said:
I cited the RC bit for completeness sake. My first example was from the 1e DMG and a later citation was from the 3.5 DMG.
But all such quibbling detracts from the main question of whether the new rule books should provide at least some guidance concerning RP XP or flatly say such is not part of the rules or omit mention of such entirely.
I think it should remain an option that is at least touched on briefly. Certainly, it should not be discouraged.
Pickles JG
First Post
There are 4 roles aren't there so if my striker is "striking" or my defender is "defending" then I am role playing & deserve my RP XP. I do not know why role playing has got so mixed up with overacting & attention hogging.
(& while that is flip & I make no apologies for liking killing things & taking their stuff, I wonder if it is what Mr Gygax meant by role playinig - the OPs quoted section of the 1ed DMG certainly seems to support it)
(& while that is flip & I make no apologies for liking killing things & taking their stuff, I wonder if it is what Mr Gygax meant by role playinig - the OPs quoted section of the 1ed DMG certainly seems to support it)
Pickles JG said:
Actually, you are quite right. While hamming it up can be fun, the original notion of roleplaying was about the words and actions of the character (by proxy of the player) within its given role (class, usually). That can be judged objectively, without trying to decide whose accent was most fitting.
Rex Blunder
First Post
I absolutely think the 1e quote definition of "role" is more like the 4e "class role" rather than "acting role". Pretending to be your guy was always in there, of course, but the thespianic style came to the forefront, I believe, during the late 80's, if the bulletin board discussions and letters I remember from Dragon magazine are anything to go by. Older folks, you can correct me if I'm wrong.
I think there are multiple quotes on the Ask Gary Gygax thread where he ridicules this style, and remarks that it's just a game, and shouldn't be taken that seriously. Quotes from 1e will not support Blind Ogre's definition of role-playing experience. However, I'm willing to believe that Basic and possibly 2e (which I don't remember well) might.
That said, I think that Gary had his own style and wasn't always as tolerant as he could have been of other styles. I have no problem with capital-a-Acting, or beer-and-pretzels, or what have you.
Personally, I prefer other ideas, like awarding action points for doing something cool, rather than roleplaying XP. Now that you don't have to spend XP to make items and get resurrected, we have an opportunity to have all the players in the party level together more often: which means everyone sits down with the rulebooks and character sheets at the same time, rather than staggered, which means less time wasted while waiting for a guy to update his sheet.
I think there are multiple quotes on the Ask Gary Gygax thread where he ridicules this style, and remarks that it's just a game, and shouldn't be taken that seriously. Quotes from 1e will not support Blind Ogre's definition of role-playing experience. However, I'm willing to believe that Basic and possibly 2e (which I don't remember well) might.
That said, I think that Gary had his own style and wasn't always as tolerant as he could have been of other styles. I have no problem with capital-a-Acting, or beer-and-pretzels, or what have you.
Personally, I prefer other ideas, like awarding action points for doing something cool, rather than roleplaying XP. Now that you don't have to spend XP to make items and get resurrected, we have an opportunity to have all the players in the party level together more often: which means everyone sits down with the rulebooks and character sheets at the same time, rather than staggered, which means less time wasted while waiting for a guy to update his sheet.
Rex Blunder said:
I can only speak for the Swedish tradition but here it was very much so. It did happen during the late 80s, which was very clear to us who went to as good as all the RP conventions in the country back then. I confess to having been an active part in the crusade to make AD&D more about the character acting and less about the problem solving.
Fun times, but I am glad I am a bit more open minded these days.
Rex Blunder said:
Actually, I don't think I stated what my base definition was. I think RP in game terms should be a little from both aspects, with emphasis on class and alignment role fulfillment plus a little bit of acting (mainly in terms of dialog) if one can manage such.
I remember the interviews with EGG on the subject and he was more concerned with those who went a bit overboard. In his definition (as I recall), role-playing was basically controlling the actions of a character within the bounds of its role as defined by class and alignment and abilities. Simple as that. It was indeed the 80s before it became quite popular to put more into the theatrical aspect. That lasted well into the 90s until 3e came out, at which point the tendency was to lean back toward the original notions. Now, most players I know seem to more solidly land in the class/alignment/abilities aspect and few are even slightly theatrical.
It may be a generational thing. Back in the day, we did not have much in the way of vivid and ubiquitous adventure entertainment. Cable was fairly new. Most people got three channels of TV. Blockbuster films were just being born. VCRs were not yet affordable. A video game was some variation of Pong. To spice up role-playing games, we added added the funny voices and archaic speech. We were entertaining each other with our amateur theatrics as we were with the other aspects of the game. These days, the entertainment aspect is covered by so much available media that any theatrical RP seems to some to be unnecessary. We are already sufficiently entertained in that respect.
Maybe it is that the theatrical aspect of RP is no longer relevant, understood, or appreciated among the younger players who don't remember a time before computers and VCRs. Maybe...
BTW, anyone know where I can find a good buggy-whip?
Rex Blunder
First Post
Fair enough. I misunderstood what you meant by "roleplaying XP". I think the way you define it in your last post, it's perfectly consonant with 1e. It sounds like it's just a positive construction of the many 1e penalties for not acting correctly for your class/alignment.
Spinachcat
First Post
XP? Screw XP. After 10 encounters, everybody gets a level. Woot! Baddabing baddaboom!
As for roleplaying, get into the character to the exact right amount that brings you maximum happiness and does not detract from the game or enjoyment of others.
As for "OD&D", it means much more than "1974 rules" because houseruling and homebrewing was such a huge part of that era. It is doubtful that by 1976 you could find many gamers who played OD&D via the 1974 rules as written. It was a time of exciting innovation and D&D was seen as a fluid genre by most, not the stone tablet it became with AD&D 2e and beyond.
KISS concerts + pre-AIDS sex + OD&D homebrews = where's my freaking time machine!!
As for roleplaying, get into the character to the exact right amount that brings you maximum happiness and does not detract from the game or enjoyment of others.
As for "OD&D", it means much more than "1974 rules" because houseruling and homebrewing was such a huge part of that era. It is doubtful that by 1976 you could find many gamers who played OD&D via the 1974 rules as written. It was a time of exciting innovation and D&D was seen as a fluid genre by most, not the stone tablet it became with AD&D 2e and beyond.
KISS concerts + pre-AIDS sex + OD&D homebrews = where's my freaking time machine!!
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