"No save or die", but now "20 and TPK".

[Celebrim]

In addition to the potential TPK issue, if you can get multiple crits with an AoE attack, the complaining will change to: Have you played a melee combatant and been a little envious of the excitement of other players when they critical an entire group? Have you wished that you could do that with your sword?

That won't happen because fighters will be able to get a spel... a 'manuever' rather that they can use once per 'encounter' that will let them hit everything in an area with with thier sword. Granted, it won't do 1d6 damage/level, but then again, neither will the fireball.

So everyone is happy. Right?

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

That won't happen because fighters will be able to get a spel... a 'manuever' rather that they can use once per 'encounter' that will let them hit everything in an area with with thier sword. Granted, it won't do 1d6 damage/level, but then again, neither will the fireball.

So everyone is happy. Right?

You mean like Whirlwind Attack?

 

[Scribble]

Are we sure crit confirms are out of it?

Because then it changes to, get a crit with an area effect, then roll to confirm. Less die rolling over all, but also less hazard of a TPK.

Also there could be counters that come into effect if you're hit with a crit, or area effect.

 

[timbannock]

...but in SAGA they quickly changed it when GM's found parties dropping like flies to a handful of stormtroppers using autofire.

Shouldn't things like autofire be scary in games like Star Wars?

I haven't read or played SAGA, and I agree that this train of thought doesn't work for the D&D milieu, but I'm just sayin' is all.

 

[Celebrim]

You mean like Whirlwind Attack?

I'm sure Whirlwind Attack will be one option.

 

[Cadfan]

*insert ominous music here*

 

[Stalker0]

A couple more guesses on to what it could be.

1) Instead of choosing a target, on a crit, whoever has the lowest reflex save modifier gets the crit damage, a nice benefit for having a high reflex, and since fighters often have the lowest reflex saves, the least fire protection, but often the highest hitpoints, the crit may not be as deadly.

2) The area effect is in fact low damage. With the mention of the dragon getting immediate fire breaths and so forth, the area effect may now be more of a compliment to the dragon's other abilities. Now instead of a deadly attack its a nice softener.

 

[drothgery]

Shouldn't things like autofire be scary in games like Star Wars?

Autofire is scary. Area effects are pretty much the mook's great equalizer in SWSE (because as long as you hit a reflex def of 10, you're doing half damage -- unless evasion, cover, or block/deflect [if applicable] get in the way). When my SW PCs were starting at 2nd level, I sent CL2 'Mandalorians' (nonheroic 6 Clone Troopers from the book) after them that didn't use autofire, grenades, or try to combine fire. And they were a serious threat. Same characters at 4th level, same bad guys (okay, with one guy with some noble levels), only now they're using autofire and grenades and there are a few more of them... still a serious threat.

Criticals on top of that are just a bit over the top.

 

[timbannock]

Autofire is scary. Area effects are pretty much the mook's great equalizer in SWSE (because as long as you hit a reflex def of 10, you're doing half damage -- unless evasion, cover, or block/deflect [if applicable] get in the way). When my SW PCs were starting at 2nd level, I sent CL2 'Mandalorians' (nonheroic 6 Clone Troopers from the book) after them that didn't use autofire, grenades, or try to combine fire. And they were a serious threat. Same characters at 4th level, same bad guys (okay, with one guy with some noble levels), only now they're using autofire and grenades and there are a few more of them... still a serious threat.

Criticals on top of that are just a bit over the top.

Hopefully not derailing here:

Anyone who doesn't seek cover (or have a lightsaber that they are well-trained in) while getting blasted by autofire in the Star Wars movies tended to not last so long. This to me makes sense.

But again, for D&D, that's not "in-genre," so I'm expecting lower damage overall for area effect attacks.

In SAGA, don't you add level or 1/2 level to damage rolls or something? I wonder if that'll be applicable for spells, too? Interesting difference b/t fighters and wizards is always the fact that fighters have a pretty stable amount of damage (most of it comes from set bonuses), while wizards are usually rolling tons of dice, and thus it varies.

 

[Bagpuss]

Anyone who doesn't seek cover (or have a lightsaber that they are well-trained in) while getting blasted by autofire in the Star Wars movies tended to not last so long. This to me makes sense.

Cover doesn't help if they roll a natural 20 as it hits you despite cover.

Oh and they errataed in a rule that you don't take the half damage on a miss from area effect attacks, previously you took half damage no matter what.