D&D 5E No spell Paladin Feat

[Scott Steven Bell]

Paladins are alreadt single target killing machines. Why the need to make them even better at it? I might might a smite ability that does less damage but in the form of an AOE or something but then again if they want to do that they can cast a spell,,,which is why they have that option now.

 

[Krachek]

Everyone

Want some opinions. Considering creating a feat that when taken removes all spells from a Paladin. So a Paladin will then be limited to using spell slots for divine smites.

Trying to decide what the bonus of the feat would be. These are some thoughts. Trying to decide which one to use.

Smite damage increased from D8 to D10 or D12.
Smites add one extra D8 to dice when rolling.
Smites blind or deafen upon impact if a Con save is failed.

These are just some ideas. Other suggestions are welcome.

I think sorcerer would get too much benefits from this kind of feat.

 

[Dausuul]

The PC is expending a feat slot, so there should be a power boost. Smite damage is spectacular when it happens, but it's not all that much across the entire adventuring day. The book recommends 6-8 encounters per day; but even if you reduce that to 4, increasing the size of smite dice does far less than you'd think. At a rough calculation, increasing smite dice from 1d8 to 1d12 has about the same effect on total damage output as adding +2 to Strength. You do have the ability to focus that additional damage in a nova burst, which is nice, but you give up the other benefits of a Strength increase. Seems fair.

But that's just for a feat which boosts your smite dice to 1d12, full stop. If the PC is sacrificing versatility by giving up spellcasting, the feat should also grant an additional way to use those spell levels. My suggestion: Whenever you use Lay On Hands, you can expend a spell slot and add 6 points per spell level to the amount healed.

 

[Nevvur]

The PC is expending a feat slot, so there should be a power boost. Smite damage is spectacular when it happens, but it's not all that much across the entire adventuring day. The book recommends 6-8 encounters per day; but even if you reduce that to 4, increasing the size of smite dice does far less than you'd think. At a rough calculation, increasing smite dice from 1d8 to 1d12 has about the same effect on total damage output as adding +2 to Strength. You do have the ability to focus that additional damage in a nova burst, which is nice, but you give up the other benefits of a Strength increase. Seems fair.

But that's just for a feat which boosts your smite dice to 1d12, full stop. If the PC is sacrificing versatility by giving up spellcasting, the feat should also grant an additional way to use those spell levels. My suggestion: Whenever you use Lay On Hands, you can expend a spell slot and add 6 points per spell level to the amount healed.

When I first began composing a reply to the OP, I started breaking down the maths for his first two ideas and comparing them to an ASI. I ended up discarding that analysis because it didn't include several complicating factors and because I hoped someone else would do it instead. My breakdown was that for a 5th level paladin, D10 smite dice grants +14 damage per adventuring day. This feat becomes more powerful than an ASI as the paladin gains spell slots and as the adventuring day grows shorter (or rather, in the latter case, ASI becomes less powerful).

(1st level slots = 4 x 9 damage vs. 4 x 11 damage
2nd level slots = 2 x 13.5 damage vs 2 x 16.5 damage
= 63 vs 77 = 14 extra damage once all spell slots are expended)

Which is to say, I basically agree with your assessment, including the addition of a new way to use spell slots. +14 damage/day for a feat is considerably less powerful than several other feat options or an ASI. I just wanted to mention this for people speculating it's too much damage, and to suggest the OP considers his typical adventuring days/campaign length when arriving at a decision.

 

[smbakeresq]

I did this for my son, who wanted to play a Paladin like Reinhardt in Overwatch at age 11. The spells were used for divine smite only and a limited spell list of 5 spells to simulate Reinhardts Earthshatter ability.

Starting with Thunderous Smite (2d6 single target and prone) at first level going through Destructive Wave (10d6 + Prone) at 5th level I just increased damage and area by 2d6 at each level in the middle.

I also gave him the Fire Bolt Cantrip with the added limitation of a material component (the hammer) scaled just like a wizard to simulate Flame Strike.

It has worked well, and in no way is more overpowered or weaker than a regular Paladin, just less versatile.

 

[Ganymede81]

Everyone

Want some opinions. Considering creating a feat that when taken removes all spells from a Paladin. So a Paladin will then be limited to using spell slots for divine smites.

Trying to decide what the bonus of the feat would be. These are some thoughts. Trying to decide which one to use.

Smite damage increased from D8 to D10 or D12.
Smites add one extra D8 to dice when rolling.
Smites blind or deafen upon impact if a Con save is failed.

These are just some ideas. Other suggestions are welcome.

This is a bad idea.

Spells and smites use the same pool of resources; taking away those spells decreases a paladin's flexibility without a drop in power while enhancing those smites is a direct increase to a paladin's power level. Losses in flexibility rarely, if ever, balance increases

You're essentially trading something the player wasn't going to use anyways in order to bolster the power of something that player was already going to use.

Is this boost in power as valuable as a feat? It's hard to say, but radical changes to classes are probably best handled by changing the class itself.

 

[Sacrosanct]

I implemented a new feat that all paladins have to choose: Traveller. Once you get it, you have to roll up new backgrounds and see if you die. That's the choice for playing a paladin. AMIRITE [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] ?

 

[lowkey13]

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