No upper limit on temporary HPs?

[Shin Okada]

How about ruling that the hard cap is double max hp? It seems simple enough, and is arguably the intent. You gain 5 hp per round until you hit double max hp, at which point you must make a fort save each round until your temp hp goes down. At which point, the fast healing resumes giving you temp hp.

Example: PC has 200 hp. Once he gain 200 temp hp from the fast healing, he must save each round or explode. However, he cannot gain more temp hp. He's "full." If he slits his wrists for 15 damage to avoid the save vs. dying, he's back down to 185 temp hp, and resumes gaining 5 per round, again up to 200 in 3 more rounds, assuming no more damage to himself.

That seems to be a simple and good option. So, someone with high Fort save and Steadfast Determination feat can simply keep Max HPs + equal number of tempral HPs without worrying about exploding. Others need to consider what to do.

Still, It may be too beneficial for someone with Steadfast Determination. They can virtually have double their normal HPs. Others will likely to end up using spells like attune form and having normal HP limit (though they will be benefited from fast healing).

Also, I have a hard choice if I should give that feat to some of the monsters and villains, or not.

 

[Theo R Cwithin]

Ah. I see. I meant to make it so.

If a PC's normal HP=200, he starts to roll saves once his his full HPs (200) and gains 201+ temporal HPs. Then, say, when the temporal HPs = 250, DC is 30.

Ack! I just realize what I said made little sense! I was trying to get at what Stream said, that the PCs are ok until they have 2x Normal_Max_HP, and only then do they make the saves (DC 20, or escalating DC).

*sigh* I'll go in the corner quietly.

 

[FEADIN]

How about ruling that the hard cap is double max hp? It seems simple enough, and is arguably the intent. You gain 5 hp per round until you hit double max hp, at which point you must make a fort save each round until your temp hp goes down. At which point, the fast healing resumes giving you temp hp.

Example: PC has 200 hp. Once he gain 200 temp hp from the fast healing, he must save each round or explode. However, he cannot gain more temp hp. He's "full." If he slits his wrists for 15 damage to avoid the save vs. dying, he's back down to 185 temp hp, and resumes gaining 5 per round, again up to 200 in 3 more rounds, assuming no more damage to himself.

(I really would find it darkly humorous to put a bunch of completely unprepared PCs on the Positive Energy Plane and leave them desperately lascerating themselves to stave off death from healing.)

I'd use the same ruling.

 

[Shin Okada]

Sorry for a thread resurrection.

It seems that I must change my mind and use "the hard cap is double max hp" house rule suggested by StreamOfTheSky.

In the mod, the author included a construct creature in an encounter held in positive energy plane. According to SRD, constructs have,

—Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects, or is harmless).

So, they never need to roll fort save. Without the hard cap, the construct can have infinite temporary HPs. Increasing DC does not help at all.

Now PCs with Steadfast Determination will have full HPs plus equal number of temporary HPs at the start of each encounter. So as monsters and NPCs with the same feat, and so as the constructs. I must see how this will affect on the difficulties of each encounters.

 

[Physiker]

Well I think constructs are unaffected by the positive energy plane. Since their body have to be repaired if the take damage. They can't be healed, so I'd say they are also immune against Fast Healing.

So they can "live" infinitly on the positive energy plane but don't get any advantage. They are not living after all.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

Well I think constructs are unaffected by the positive energy plane. Since their body have to be repaired if the take damage. They can't be healed, so I'd say they are also immune against Fast Healing.

So they can "live" infinitly on the positive energy plane but don't get any advantage. They are not living after all.

The issue was with a Warforged, which are "living constructs" and for which common sense does not apply.

EDIT: wait, this was about a Warforged, right? I can't remember now!

 

[aboyd]

I thought temporary hit points from the same source don't stack. Thus, any creature in such an effect would simply have a constant 5 HP more than normal. If they were knocked down, they would replenish up to 5 HP over normal again.

 

[coyote6]

AFAICT, that's not how the Positive Energy Plane is intended to work; otherwise, the whole bit about exploding when temp hp exceeds normal hp would be pointless for almost any character above 1st level. Since the module was for high-level characters, and it assumes the same applies for high level & high hp NPCs, it's obviously the case that, at least for the PEP, the temp hp accumulate.

 

[aboyd]

AFAICT, that's not how the Positive Energy Plane is intended to work; otherwise, the whole bit about exploding when temp hp exceeds normal hp would be pointless for almost any character above 1st level.

Why? A 3rd-level character with 15 HP can't explode from being infused with a constant positive energy that adds 5 temporary HP?

If it doesn't work as I suggest, then we have problems with infinite hit points, as outlined above. If it does work as I suggest, then we not only don't have the problem above, but we are also following the 3.5 FAQ:

Do temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect stack? What about from different effects? If I have temporary hit points from multiple sources, how should I apply damage?

Temporary hit points from two applications of the same effect don’t stack; instead, the highest number of temporary hit points applies in place of all others. Temporary hit points from different sources stack, but you must keep track of them separately.

For example, imagine a character who gained 15 temporary hit points from an aid spell. After taking 8 points of damage, she has 7 temporary hit points left from the spell. If another aid spell were cast on the same character granting 12 temporary hit points, this total would replace the other spell’s total, meaning the character would now have 12 temporary hit points (rather than 19).

If the character then cast false life on herself, she would add the full benefit of that spell to the temporary hit points from the aid spell. This also applies to temporary hit points gained from energy drain and similar special abilities. Each successful attack counts as one application of the effect (meaning that an attack that bestows 2 or more negative levels still counts as
only one application of the effect). For example, a wight gains 5 temporary hit points each time it bestows a negative level with its slam attack. If it bestows another negative level while it has 2 temporary hit points remaining from the first attack, the new temporary hit points would replace the old ones.

I find the example of the wight to be most persuasive, as it is detailing a positive/negative energy effect.

So basically, we ignore this to deliberately cause ourselves more trouble. I guess if that's what is desired, it's what is desired. However, in my case, I'd rather just follow the FAQ and not have any headache.

 

[coyote6]

Why? A 3rd-level character with 15 HP can't explode from being infused with a constant positive energy that adds 5 temporary HP?

No, because you can only explode if the temporary hp gained from the PEP's effect exceed your normal maximum hp. Thus, 15 hp man can only explode when he has more than 15 temporary hp. If the PEP's effect never stacks with itself, then he can never gain more than 5 temp hp, and thus is never in danger of exploding.

I would suggest that the specifics of the PEP's effects override the general rule regarding temporary hp. Otherwise, the PEP's effects are meaningless and a huge waste of words (all those items the NPCs carry to overcome said effects, not to mention the paragraphs of explanatory material, spells to counter the effects, etc.).

That the PEP's effects (introduced in 3e, possibly before MotP came out) interact poorly with a late 3.5e feat isn't terribly shocking.