D&D 5E no wizards?

[Unwise]

You could have a world where magic is simply not something to be trifled with by mortals. All power has to be focused and provided by a higher power.

Take a fantasy variation of ancient Greece for instance:
- Clerics a-plenty
- Druids often tied to powerful fey or festival/nature gods
- Sorcerers have some divine blood in them, Zues/Hades once bonked their grandma in the form of a purple duck (more common than you would think)
- Warlocks and Paladins are sworn to the service of a greater power

This type of campaign setting allows little room for humans dabbling in magic of their own devices. An example might be Icarus attempting to learn the power of the winds or Prometheus stealing the power for pyromancy from the gods. Generally speaking, the higher powers would slap down any 'wizard' that attempted to tap into their power uninvited.

It is also important to remember that there need not be any pervasive 'the force' style magic in the world. There might not be ley-lines and magic inherent in everything. The only magic that exists could come from inside magic creatures. As such, there is nothing for an academic wizard to study, they cannot see or touch magic as does not exist until a higher power summons it.

 

[Mishihari Lord]

I don't have a suggestion, but that's a really intriguing idea.

 

[DMZ2112]

if you have magic, you have to have wizards too.

That's right! And don't you forget it!

Anyone got any thoughts on the subject? Has anyone ever played in or run a game in which there was magic but no academic wizard types? I'm just curious to see if it can be done and, if so, how to go about pulling it off. What are the ramifications of doing it?

The big drawback as I see it is the loss of arcane utility. It's completely possible to create a utility sorcerer in most d20 and d20-derived systems, but it's the odd party that has the manpower to support such a creature and the odd player who enjoys playing one.

The wizard's spellbook provides a lot of flexibility that the other arcane classes don't bring to the table. If you need a Legend Lore mid-adventure, the wizard can take eight hours and get you one. If the sorcerer or warlock don't already know it, it's a long way back to the sage's office in town.

 

[Dannorn]

Pathfinder's Alchemist could fill the role of non-innate scholastic caster with just a little tweak to the flavour text. Rather than being someone who imbues potions and bombs with magic he studies magic and replicates its effects with science. So you have only sorcs, locks, clerics, etc. doing actual magic and then the scholar who studies and mimics it. No wizards required.

 

[Razjah]

I don't think pulling wizards from the setting is that bad. The scholarly thing can easily be done with druids, clerics, sorcerers, and warlocks. Just because you have natural talent to cast a spell doesn't mean you don't need to practice and study to make it happen.

The wizards make items a lot, but finding items in the world could easily be made from past civilizations/gods/etc like normal.

As for having someone study magic, without being able to actually do anything with that knowledge, it seems rather strange to me. I'd just use the existing classes. Plus it allows for the sorcerer class to finally learn a spell not seen in the world. With wizards, it is implied that basically all of magic is known. The sorcerer can just produce the effects spontaneously.

I'd rather a world where there is no Bigby or Evard. Black Tentacles is a devastating ability that terrifies locals or earns someone awe as they ruined a goblin raid with a single spell. I know it can be done with wizards still in the game, but it isn't implied the same way.

 

[pukunui]

The big drawback as I see it is the loss of arcane utility. It's completely possible to create a utility sorcerer in most d20 and d20-derived systems, but it's the odd party that has the manpower to support such a creature and the odd player who enjoys playing one.

The wizard's spellbook provides a lot of flexibility that the other arcane classes don't bring to the table. If you need a Legend Lore mid-adventure, the wizard can take eight hours and get you one. If the sorcerer or warlock don't already know it, it's a long way back to the sage's office in town.

You'd have the same problem if no one chose to play a wizard. I don't see it being all that big of a deal.

 

[DMZ2112]

You'd have the same problem if no one chose to play a wizard. I don't see it being all that big of a deal.

All right, smartypants, but if you don't have utility casters in your setting, do those spells even exist at all?

 

[pukunui]

Sure. Not every caster is going to be an adventurer ~ some of them might be more inclined to learn utilitarian spells rather than combat spells. Some of those spells might be available as rituals as well.

 

[MarkB]

Indeed - the utility casters probably have an easier time in general, being able to get decent jobs that put their talents to use in civilian life. The combat casters don't have a useful outlet for their talents outside of military or adventuring careers.

 

[I'm A Banana]

The man in the gleaming armor spat in disgust.

"Magic! Bah! It's a taint on our world, a corruption of what it means to be human. It's slavery is what it is! Those warlocks and priests out makin' pacts with gods and fiends and fey and dragons and nature spirits and everythin' else. Like this world ain't good enough for 'em, like they wanna escape. They ain't happy just being real, they gotta be more. The egos on these fools..."

He shook his head at their ignorance.

"They're slowly killin' this world, but the power's too much for most of 'em to resist. Listen: your soul is YOURS. It ain't the gods', it ain't the devils', it ain't the Far Realm's. It don't belong to no one else. If you wanna be like them magicians and give it up, it's like you're giving them a gift, a payment. Sure, doesn't seem like much right now, but when you're kaput, it'll go to whoever or whatever you pledged it to. It'll further some god's petty holy war, or some demon's plot or some nature spirit's babbling brook or whatever. You're giving it up! You can't decide how to use it, THEY get to decide how to use it. It's nonsense. You give up your eternal soul for some momentary sparkling lights."

I stare at my mug of warm, watery ale as the foam atop it slowly bursts, and ask him of Sorcery. The mug shakes and spills as he strikes the table.

"That's what we get! Pheh! Those so-called nobles in their high-falutin' palaces pretending to be better than everyone else because of their blood. They got no right to rule us! They're corrupted. Those are tainted souls, coming back to us. Every single one of those bastard bloodlines is born of something wanting to carve up our world and eat it. Y'know the king of this land, Rufus? You know how he can shine that halo out of his head? That arrogant knob's blood goes back to a celestial, his soul isn't of this world, it's of the heavens. Oh sure, he acts like he looks out for the little people, but that's just trickery -- if he seems like a good bloke, everyone'll want to be like him, and the celestials will get more pacts, and more souls will be ripped from the people who own them by rights. Look, I'm sure he's a good chap who loves his momma and treats everyone right, but sod it all, he's playing right into the plans of those angels, and he's making this world die while he's doing it!"

I look up from the ale soaking into the aged wood of the table, and into his ice-blue eyes, wide with fury. I tell him my title, who I represent. I tell him our philosophy: "know thy enemy." The Tower isn't just a cabal of academics, after all. We know that magic is not of this world, is a taint on our natural beauty, and is being offered to our people in exchange for their souls. We know what's possible when you ignore the lure of magic, and practice your own arts. We have warriors and monks and naturalists and thieves the world over searching for people like the man in front of me. He called himself "Murdor the Mage-Slayer," and the corpses he had made of the Sacrificed, those who have given their souls to Outsiders, was impressive. He clearly understood the risk they posed to the land.

I hand him a scroll, carefully drawn in the hand of a master monk, who practiced cartography as meditation. I tell him to follow it, if he wants to see the magicians' reign end. He stares at it, mouth agape.

"I thought you guys was a myth..."

I stand and wrap my cloak tightly around me. It feels safer, though I know Rufus's diviners are probably tapping the piercing gazes of the celestials as we spoke. A cloak won't stop their divine eyes. Murdor's reputation preceded him, and he had been watched for eight weeks now. If we hadn't acted, they would've.

He's still staring at the scroll as I don my pack. I don't know why, but I feel some pity for this man. He reminds me a bit of my son. Reckless. Stupid. Passionate. "Far from it," I say. "The gods, the faeries, the demons, the angels. Those are the myths. What's true in this world is you and I. Our souls are ours, not theirs. What the Tower is doing is protecting people from the myths."

As I left him there, I failed to notice the glow of the eyes of the man in the corner, or how his gaze followed me as I left. Damn celestial-pact warlocks. How's a person supposed to know you're calling on angels if you're not praying?
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