D&D 5E Nobody Is Playing High Level Characters

According to stats from D&D Beyond, above 5th level characters start to drop off sharply, and above 10th level, the figures are very low. The exception is level 20, which looks like it's probably people creating experimental 20th-level builds.

Some of them say 0%; this isn't strictly accurate, but levels 16-19 are used by an insignificant number of players. Interestingly, there are more 3rd-5th level characters than there are 1st-2nd level.

D&D Beyond has said before that under 10% of games make it past 10th level, but these figures show the break point as being bit lower than that. DDB used over 30 million characters to compile these stats.

 

[volanin]

In my experience (and I have also read this on other GMs books and blogs), most campaigns start to lose momentum after 20-30 sessions.

Nowadays, I plan my campaigns to have about 20 sessions, and they always reach about 25 sessions because players get sidetracked.

At the rate of 1 level every 2-3 sessions (an adventure's length), most players complete the campaign at 10th-11th level, feeling very satisfied.

Bringing the game to 20th level in D&D is really hard for me as a DM, as me and my players start to get fatigued with the campaign.

I still haven't tried to accelerate the progression rate yet (to about 1 level per session), in order to accomodate 20 levels in 20 sessions... but I don't see it working well at all!

 

[Anoth]

You see, I'm on the opposite direction on this: I would rather the game only focused on 10th level, with level 11-20 be in a later supplement. Start all archetypes at 1st level and dont make level 1-3 unimportant training wheels levels. Give stat bumps ASI at level 4 and 8, but also give class features at those levels.

Anyway, just to say that tastes in D&D vary a lot indeed

In all seriousness I agree with that. If you are going to play low level. Screw that killing rats BS. Make the villain a memorable goblin lord. Give just as badass a plot as you would at 20th level. Don’t start the pc’s off as simpering vultures trying to take the left overs of big guns. Make them have ruthless adversaries and epic adventures. I hate how the word epic has come to mean high level. It’s actually a type of story or frame of mind.

 

[Nagol]

In my experience (and I have also read this on other GMs books and blogs), most campaigns start to lose momentum after 20-30 sessions.

Nowadays, I plan my campaigns to have about 20 sessions, and they always reach about 25 sessions because players get sidetracked.

At the rate of 1 level every 2-3 sessions (an adventure's length), most players complete the campaign at 10th-11th level, feeling very satisfied.

Bringing the game to 20th level in D&D is really hard for me as a DM, as me and my players start to get fatigued with the campaign.

I still haven't tried to accelerate the progression rate yet (to about 1 level per session), in order to accomodate 20 levels in 20 sessions... but I don't see it working well at all!

I am always interested in this perspective because it is so at odds with my own style. My current (non-D&D) campaign just passed its 7th birthday playing 20+ sessions a year (fortnightly with the very occasional miss).

My last D&D campaign ran 6+ years at the same pace and the highest PC reached 19th level when I called it.

 

[volanin]

I am always interested in this perspective because it is so at odds with my own style. My current (non-D&D) campaign just passed its 7th birthday playing 20+ sessions a year (fortnightly with the very occasional miss).

My last D&D campaign ran 6+ years at the same pace and the highest PC reached 19th level when I called it.

Amazing. Really. This blows my mind as I can't see myself ever having such a long campaign! =)

 

[Li Shenron]

It is very interesting, especially when compared to the number of people around this forum that have completed multiple APs, which typically go up to 10-15. I think it is more evidence on how outside the norm the forum posters are. We are just a rare breed!

Don't forget the dark side of the explanation: we're on a social network protected by anonymity, people tend to "exaggerate" about their own achievements.

Then the game starts to become harder to handle when casters get to cast 6th level spells.

I think most campaigns are still going to end around level 10, but not for the same reasons as prior editions. In many earlier editions, the game started to become unmanageable for the DM, with too many high level spells and abilities able to circumvent the plot. A good DM might figure out countermeasures, but sometimes the players have something unexpected up their sleeve. This can be really frustrating for the DM, often causing them to give up. In 5E it's a bit easier for the DM to keep things on course, but it is harder than the "sweet spot."

I never dared to DM a very high level game because of this. The only time I ever was in a high level campaign (3e) I was a player, and our PCs were spread around levels 15-17 IIRC. There weren't much problems BUT that's maybe because I was playing the arcane caster (Sorcerer) and I focused on blasting rather than gamechanging spells. We had a druid focused on healing, and everyone else was a martial character...

 

[Tiggerunner]

Um... no, they don't! My apologies, but this is a science-literacy point that is highly relevant in today's life, outside of gaming. So... I'm gonna lecture:

As a social scientist and an epistemologist/philosopher of science, I'll raise you.

I'd like to point out this data is not a random sample of D&D players, but rather is biased by the sorts of players D&D Beyond is marketed towards. It's entirely possible that D&D Beyond is less likely to be used by veteran DMs and longtime grognards, and consequently, there's a false generalization that because most new/young DMs and their parties don't go beyond level 10, that ALL DMs and their parties don't. I'd hate to see WoTC not make products for people who would like higher level campaigns just because it doesn't appeal to recruitment of new players.

As a DM for over half a decade, I can attest that my campaigns typically start at level 1 and end at level 10. I actually would like to start a campaign at level 10 and end at level 20 for a change of pace, but I can't find any good resources for lessons learned at running high level campaigns.

I welcome advice, to include campaign recommendations for a DM that wants to explore high level play for the first time.

 

[Swarmkeeper]

As a social scientist and an epistemologist/philosopher of science, I'll raise you.

I'd like to point out this data is not a random sample of D&D players, but rather is biased by the sorts of players D&D Beyond is marketed towards. It's entirely possible that D&D Beyond is less likely to be used by veteran DMs and longtime grognards, and consequently, there's a false generalization that because most new/young DMs and their parties don't go beyond level 10, that ALL DMs and their parties don't. I'd hate to see WoTC not make products for people who would like higher level campaigns just because it doesn't appeal to recruitment of new players.
{snip}

Yes to this. One campaign I'm running at the local game cafe has gone for over 3 years, meeting once every two weeks or so. I am aware of only one player (of the 16 who have played at least 3 sessions) who actively uses D&D Beyond for his character. The current party of 7 now spans levels 13 to 16. I have roughly mapped out an end-game that occurs when most/all of the party are at level 20. Likely will happen as we approach the 4 year anniversary. Maybe our group is an outlier... but maybe not.

Anyway, I guess my question is: what is the estimated proportion of D&D 5e players that utilize D&D Beyond for their character(s)? Any data out there that someone can cite?

 

[Umbran]

I'd like to point out this data is not a random sample of D&D players, but rather is biased by the sorts of players D&D Beyond is marketed towards. It's entirely possible that D&D Beyond is less likely to be used by veteran DMs and longtime grognards, and consequently, there's a false generalization that because most new/young DMs and their parties don't go beyond level 10, that ALL DMs and their parties don't.

Well, IIRC, there is previous market research that suggested that a typical campaign lifespan was 18 months or less, which would put a cap on the levels achieved. That informed the XP reward system for 3e and 4e, (again, IIRC) so that dedicated weekly play was apt to go thorugh 20 levels in 18 months - one level every 3 to 5 sessions, on average.

I'd hate to see WoTC not make products for people who would like higher level campaigns just because it doesn't appeal to recruitment of new players.

It isn't just about recruitment. It is about what folks are going to spend on.

As a DM for over half a decade, I can attest that my campaigns typically start at level 1 and end at level 10.

Sure. Fine anecdote. I have one group that's been showing up to play campaigns that last for 3 to 5 years. But, everything other than that group is lucky to last a year.

 

[Dungeonosophy]

In my experience (and I have also read this on other GMs books and blogs), most campaigns start to lose momentum after 20-30 sessions.

Nowadays, I plan my campaigns to have about 20 sessions, and they always reach about 25 sessions because players get sidetracked.

The game is simply too complicated.

I'm starting to run some newbies through the Essentials Set, and it is actually mind-boggling to write down all those little racial traits, skills, background features, character traits, etc. --- all at first level!

I'm working a new iteration called Sixth Era, where you start off with literally one power (racial trait, class feature, proficiency, or spell) at first level. You gain one power at the end of each session. And so, after 20 sessions, you literally have 20th level character.

It's not dumbed down though, as every D&D (and Pathfinder) power from every edition is available. It's just that you only have twenty of them to keep track, even after 20 sessions! (And you can freely multiclass / multirace). It's fun.

 

[cmad1977]

As a social scientist and an epistemologist/philosopher of science, I'll raise you.

I'd like to point out this data is not a random sample of D&D players, but rather is biased by the sorts of players D&D Beyond is marketed towards. It's entirely possible that D&D Beyond is less likely to be used by veteran DMs and longtime grognards, and consequently, there's a false generalization that because most new/young DMs and their parties don't go beyond level 10, that ALL DMs and their parties don't. I'd hate to see WoTC not make products for people who would like higher level campaigns just because it doesn't appeal to recruitment of new players.

As a DM for over half a decade, I can attest that my campaigns typically start at level 1 and end at level 10. I actually would like to start a campaign at level 10 and end at level 20 for a change of pace, but I can't find any good resources for lessons learned at running high level campaigns.

I welcome advice, to include campaign recommendations for a DM that wants to explore high level play for the first time.

For higher level play, if you think you’ve put together an encounter that’s too hard for your heroes, you haven’t. Add something extra. More bad guys, environmental hazards, whatever.
In short if you think your session is going to be ‘too metal’, add more metal. At about level 12-13 the stakes the heroes are facing need to be much higher than saving a Kingdom.