Non-D&D 4Ed

[Dannyalcatraz]

I've come to the conclusion that 4Ed could have been bigger than it is if it were not released under the D&D badge.* My rationale is as follows:

1. Were it not called D&D, it would not have alienated 3.5Ed players who didn't want a substitute for their favored system.
2. Without legacy issues, the game's mechanics could have been "unshackled" and made a more flexible game.

I think those 2 factors alone could have boosted the game's sales- it would have stood on its own merits more than relying on comparisons to what had gone before (for good or ill).

Just off the top of my head, if I were to do this, I'd ditch the D&D races and rigid class structure. Race building would basically be handled by deciding which 2 stats they get boosted, and choosing a power from a menu of racial abilities.

Class building would basically be handled the same way.

Powers would be divided by power source and not much else, so a PC who had access to the Psionic power source would have a HUGE list of powers to choose from. This would let players design PCs who could be effective at all ranges of combat if they so chose; they could tightly silo their abilities, so they only had lightning powers, etc.

Multiclassing would be a bit different- I'm not sure it makes sense to retain the MC feats, given the changes listed above. Paragon classes would probably just have prereqs of access to a given power source.


How would YOU do a non-D&D version of 4Ed?






* Disclaimer: this is an opinion derived from observations made of the market and the Edition Wars through the lens of an MBA in Sports & Entertainment marketing. It is pure conjecture; not provable or disprovable.

 

[pawsplay]

I've come to the conclusion that 4Ed could have been bigger than it is if it were not released under the D&D badge.

Honestly, they could have just not called it 4e, and I might have been willing to buy an intro set. As it is, I am unwilling to "cast a vote" in favor of the 4e changeover as long as it stays in print.

 

[MichaelSomething]

If it didn't carry the D&D name, then what would make it different from the dozens of other fantasy RPGs out there?

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Honestly, they could have just not called it 4e, and I might have been willing to buy an intro set.

I do agree with that, and you're probably not alone- hence my first numbered assertion.

 

[Aus_Snow]

I've come to the conclusion that 4Ed could have been bigger than it is if it were not released under the D&D badge.

I'd give that a "maybe"; regardless, however, it is an intriguing notion.

How would YOU do a non-D&D version of 4Ed?

I'd go even further in the directions that 4e in reality has. Much further. All those things that gamers have picked holes in, since before day one? Ya ain't seen nothin' yet.

But, seeing that the "baggage" of so many D&D players wouldn't have to even be "addressed" (at some later point or other, when it's far too late; heh) that shouldn't prove problematic, in theory.

Target a whole other market, and [attempt to] do it right, is what I'd do - not, y'know, half-assed for instance. If, as you specify, this was to be some kind of "4e" at all.


If it could instead be any kind of RPG, I would most certainly not go anywhere near any of the directions 4e has gone. Waaaay the hell the other way, here and there. Because that would have an even better chance of working well, I think. And selling, what with all that marketing power available. D'oh! But I digress...

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

You're not digressing- this thread is about what you'd do with the 4Ed mechanics if you didn't have to worry about satisfying legacy issues.

Take 4Ed in any direction: SFRPG, FRPG, Supers, Spies, Horror, whatever.

How would you do it?

 

[Aus_Snow]

OK. Well, yeah, I'd make it "4e Extreme" or something. Not actually called that , but still. Using some of the 4e mechanics, sure, including perhaps power sources, etc.

So that, in terms of end product, you'd be looking at a game that really IS just a "miniatures wargame / fantasy boardgame with some kind of vague nod to 'RPing' [ugh] elements bolted on" or whatever. I mean, REALLY that.

A somewhat more open-ended and "long play" version of, I dunno, Descent or what have you. Sure, you can interact with your environment a bit, but whatever you do, don't waste too much time with that. Back to the action!


edit: With physical accessories, collectibles and expansions all over the shop. Literally. None of this soft touch, feel good, "core books are all you need to play" malarkey. Oh, no.

 

[Aldarc]

I've come to the conclusion that 4Ed could have been bigger than it is if it were not released under the D&D badge. My rationale is as follows:

1. Were it not called D&D, it would not have alienated 3.5Ed players who didn't want a substitute for their favored system.
2. Without legacy issues, the game's mechanics could have been "unshackled" and made a more flexible game.

I think those 2 factors alone could have boosted the game's sales- it would have stood on its own merits more than relying on comparisons to what had gone before (for good or ill).

How would YOU do a non-D&D version of 4Ed?

Except Statement #1 is not acceptable for those who want and do call 4E "D&D."

 

[Dannyalcatraz]

Except Statement #1 is not acceptable for those who want and do call 4E "D&D."

You're missing the point. This isn't about which edition you prefer: this is a speculative thread about what 4Ed's full potential really is.

Statement #1 is based on the premise that if 4Ed had been released as "another RPG from the makers of D&D," I'm fairly confident that the game would have had a better launch, based on the way similar strategies have worked for other companies.

For example, New Coke was a 7 year long disaster for Coke. However, since it's debut, climb, rapid fall and trickling decline, Coke not only extended the drink's profitability by changing it's name (to Coke II), it has also released other drink products based in part on it's formula.

4Ed has some excellent design ideas and is a fine, fun FRPG. However, I can see real ways in which dealing with legacy issues have hindered the game, both in terms of marketing (The Edition Wars) and mechanically (the traditional class structure).

So I'm asking what people can envision 4Ed doing without being saddled with those legacy issues.

 

[Jhaelen]

I probably wouldn't ever have looked into it if it hadn't been the next edition of D&D.

I'm not saying this because I believe it's a bad system - because I actually think it's a good system. I'm saying it because I am aware that there are dozens of equally good or better systems out there that I've not yet looked into simply because they're not as well known as the D&D brand.