Non Dragon CR 10 LE flyer?

[Voadam]

I'm updating to 3.5 and modifying a 3.0 module for our campaign and wanted to swap out a planar patrol encounter with a flying CR 10 blue dragon who is lairing with a CR 14 and 15 parental pair. However for our campaign the bad guy would not ally with dragons and so I need a flying CR 10 LE subsitute creature with advancement possibilities for CR 14 and 15.

I have tons of monster books. Templated creatures would be fine too.

Any suggestions for what would be an equivalent set of LE creatures?

Thanks.

 

[Voadam]

bump

 

[Elephant]

Would a devil do? You could advance an Erinyes (CR 8) to fit your needs.

Alternatively, you could use a Half-Fiend Goblin/Hobgoblin/Orc/Troll/etc. Advanced Manticores could also do the trick.

 

[Testament]

Malebranche from MMII clocks in at CR 9, and has seriously impressive stats. 16HD and room to advance to 48 (!).

Huge sized beatstick with no spell like abilities, just raw combat power and a fear aura. Should be nice. Bit dopey though.

Devils are probably your best bet though.

 

[Kalendraf]

I recently pitted my party against an advanced HD manticore. I posted it over in the rules forum after asking about CR-scaling stuff, but here it is again. Prepare to meet the M.O.A.M...

M.O.A.M. (MOTHER OF ALL MANTICORES)

Huge Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 18d10+126 (225 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 50 ft. (clumsy)
Armor Class: 19 (–2 size, +2 Dex, +9 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+35
Attack: Claw +27 melee (2d6+9) or 6 spikes +21 ranged (2d6+4/17–20)
Full Attack: 2 claws +27 melee (2d6+9) and bite +25 melee (2d6+4); or 6 spikes +21 ranged (2d6+4/17–20)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Spikes
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +13, Will +7
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 14, Con 24, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +11, Spot +15, Survival +1
Feats: Flyby Attack, Multiattack, TrackB, Weapon Focus (spikes), Improved Initiative, Hover, Improved Critical (spikes), Wingover
Environment: Warm marshes, Hills
Organization: Solitary, sometimes encountered with younger, normal manticores
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful evil
Advancement: 18 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: +3 (cohort)
A Mother of All Manticores (M.O.A.M.) is about 15 feet long and weighs about 3500 pounds. The name is slightly misleading, as it may refer to either a male or female of the species. The acronym for Father of All Manticores (F.O.A.M.) is not used as it would seem to imply a fun, squeezeable creature which is directly opposite of what it actually is. In fact, a M.O.A.M delights in squeezing its victims to death. M.O.A.M.s speak Common.
COMBAT
A M.O.A.M. begins most attacks with a volley of spikes, then closes. In the outdoors, it often uses its powerful wings to stay aloft during battle.
Spikes (Ex): With a snap of its tail, a manticore can loose a volley of six spikes as a standard action (make an attack roll for each spike). This attack has a range of 180 feet with no range increment. All targets must be within 30 feet of each other. The creature can launch only twenty-four spikes in any 24-hour period.
Skills: *M.O.A.M.s have a +4 racial bonus on Spot checks.

 

[Voadam]

Would a devil do? You could advance an Erinyes (CR 8) to fit your needs.

Alternatively, you could use a Half-Fiend Goblin/Hobgoblin/Orc/Troll/etc. Advanced Manticores could also do the trick.

Unfortunately no. He has direct devil allies but this adversary niche in the storyline is for a native of this non-Hellish plane who the BBEG allied with to do patrols over his planar fortress' domain.

 

[Voadam]

I recently pitted my party against an advanced HD manticore. I posted it over in the rules forum after asking about CR-scaling stuff, but here it is again. Prepare to meet the M.O.A.M...

M.O.A.M. (MOTHER OF ALL MANTICORES)

Huge Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 18d10+126 (225 hp)
Initiative: +6
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 50 ft. (clumsy)
Armor Class: 19 (–2 size, +2 Dex, +9 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 17
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+35
Attack: Claw +27 melee (2d6+9) or 6 spikes +21 ranged (2d6+4/17–20)
Full Attack: 2 claws +27 melee (2d6+9) and bite +25 melee (2d6+4); or 6 spikes +21 ranged (2d6+4/17–20)
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Spikes
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +13, Will +7
Abilities: Str 28, Dex 14, Con 24, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 9
Skills: Listen +11, Spot +15, Survival +1
Feats: Flyby Attack, Multiattack, TrackB, Weapon Focus (spikes), Improved Initiative, Hover, Improved Critical (spikes), Wingover
Environment: Warm marshes, Hills
Organization: Solitary, sometimes encountered with younger, normal manticores
Challenge Rating: 10
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually lawful evil
Advancement: 18 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: +3 (cohort)
A Mother of All Manticores (M.O.A.M.) is about 15 feet long and weighs about 3500 pounds. The name is slightly misleading, as it may refer to either a male or female of the species. The acronym for Father of All Manticores (F.O.A.M.) is not used as it would seem to imply a fun, squeezeable creature which is directly opposite of what it actually is. In fact, a M.O.A.M delights in squeezing its victims to death. M.O.A.M.s speak Common.
COMBAT
A M.O.A.M. begins most attacks with a volley of spikes, then closes. In the outdoors, it often uses its powerful wings to stay aloft during battle.
Spikes (Ex): With a snap of its tail, a manticore can loose a volley of six spikes as a standard action (make an attack roll for each spike). This attack has a range of 180 feet with no range increment. All targets must be within 30 feet of each other. The creature can launch only twenty-four spikes in any 24-hour period.
Skills: *M.O.A.M.s have a +4 racial bonus on Spot checks.

That's really nice and fits my desires pretty well, but I need CR 10, 14, & 15, so I'd need to have +5 in templates to throw on top of a normal one (Jr.) plus the Big Daddy and the MOAM.


I'll have to look up the lawful planar template and see how much it adds then go to the book of templates for a second one to top it off.

 

[Kalendraf]

That's really nice and fits my desires pretty well, but I need CR 10, 14, & 15, so I'd need to have +5 in templates to throw on top of a normal one (Jr.) plus the Big Daddy and the MOAM.


I'll have to look up the lawful planar template and see how much it adds then go to the book of templates for a second one to top it off.

I missed the part about having a CR14 & 15 version as well. You could simply keep advancing the HD, I suppose. Adding Fiendish to something this big bumps the CR by 2, and I think Axiomatic is similar, so potentially an Axiomatic Fiendish M.O.A.M is around CR 14.

Another option is bumping the stats slightly, going up to the Elite array, for example, which I think adds +1 to the CR.


If you decide to use the M.O.A.M., be careful with the tailspikes. The high ranged attack value let them hit most of the time. Avg damage per spike (non-crit) is 11 points, so on average (again, non-crit) a single tail volley will do around 66 damage. However, the improved crit usually means that 1 or 2 spikes per volley will wind up dealing double damage. Thus, it's very easy to drop certain Low-HD characters in 1 shot. Imagine your group's wizard, sorcerer, bard or rogue taking 80+ points or so in a single hit w/ no save. That's what the M.O.A.M can do. I'd suggest instead scattering the tailspikes between 2 lesser armored foes in the opening volley, greatly hurting them, and then have the M.O.A.M (or its master) call for the groups surrender or ask for some kind of payment or tribute to avoid dying. But if you feel like killing characters, those 4 volleys of tailspikes are likely to kill a few PCs. If it closes, it will likely try to grapple and just squeeze the life out of anyone that survived the spikes.

 

[Hypersmurf]

A Lawful Evil Sorcerer-10 with a Fly spell.

And his parents, the Lawful Evil Sor14 and Sor15 with Fly spells.

-Hyp.