Non-Jedi and lightsabers

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

And as for needing the force to align the crystals properly, I don't buy that in the slightest. This is a society that can build fully sentient robots, completely destroy entire planets, and send their spacecraft skipping thru other dimentions simply because they want them to go faster. Aligning a crystal with exacting precision is something even we can do. What I would say, would be that aligning a lightsaber crystal properly is normally something that requires very large, complex, precise machinery. Something about the size of a large oven, and is normally found in a weapons lab or machining plant. However, if you're down with the force you can do it by yourself using only standard hand-tools, or telekinesis.

Except that, following the rules in the RCR, it DOES require the Force to align the crystals. It isn't aligning in the sense of machinery, but there is some literal connection between the Jedi and his weapon. It IS an extension of the Jedi. That's the reason a Jedi gets that +1 bonus when using their own personal lightsaber.

...and we don't have the technology to make lightsabers. The biggest thing is, how do you make it stop? When they say 'align' crystals, it isn't talking about literally placing them in the right section. A better word for it is attuning the crystals. What exactly is attuned and how hasn't ever been said, but its obviously something to do with the Force.

Now, one thing is getting to me. Its been said that non-Jedi's had lightsabers long long ago, but where's this supported(within EU, obviously). All the history I know has ONLY Jedi using them. Sure, it goes very very far back to times when there were large amounts of Jedi, heck even to when Jedi were just wandering mystics, but lightsabers were always a central part of that. Did I miss a line somewhere in the Tales of the Jedi comics?

 

[Aesmael]

You don't even need to go to the expanded universe. In A New Hope Ben Kenobi suggests that they were once widely used - I think the quote is in this very thread. "A more civilised weapon for a more civilised age" (Perhaps not the most exactly relevant part of what he said but I have not watched the movie for quite a while). Anyway, it always seemed to me to mean that not only is it possible for non jedi to use them, that it was not uncommon among the more priviledged folk. Always disappointed me that we never see this anywhere else. And especially that Fett never gets is hands on one.

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

You don't even need to go to the expanded universe. In A New Hope Ben Kenobi suggests that they were once widely used - I think the quote is in this very thread. "A more civilised weapon for a more civilised age" (Perhaps not the most exactly relevant part of what he said but I have not watched the movie for quite a while). Anyway, it always seemed to me to mean that not only is it possible for non jedi to use them, that it was not uncommon among the more priviledged folk. Always disappointed me that we never see this anywhere else. And especially that Fett never gets is hands on one.

But the "more civilized age" quote says NOTHING about non-Jedi using them. It just means that they were more common. And Jedi were more common then. I don't buy that argument, ESPECIALLY because the more civilized age Obi-Wan was talking about we've now seen in movies and only Jedi are using the weapons.

Beyond that quote being at least slightly close to hinting that MAYBE non-Jedi used them, there's nothing that I know of to support it.

 

[Aaron2]

Now, one thing is getting to me. Its been said that non-Jedi's had lightsabers long long ago, but where's this supported(within EU, obviously).

Here's the quote from the novel:

"Your father's lightsaber," Kenobi told him. "At one time they were widely used. Still are, in certain galactic quarters."

This is canon so it trumps all EU.

However, my understanding was that there were non-jedi lightsabers in an old WEG module about the corporate sector.

Also, we know from ESB that non-Jedi can operate a lightsabre and we know from EP1 that it isn't totally outrageous for a non-jedi to have one, even in the time of the Republic. Didn't Boba Fett take out a few Jedi in his day? How many of their lightsabres ended up in the hands of rich collectors like Jabba?


Aaron

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Here's the quote from the novel:

"Your father's lightsaber," Kenobi told him. "At one time they were widely used. Still are, in certain galactic quarters."

This is canon so it trumps all EU.

If you want to debate canon(and I don't, I hate those debates because they're all subjective), then technically the novel isn't. The movies are. Beyond that, good luck.

However, my understanding was that there were non-jedi lightsabers in an old WEG module about the corporate sector.

Also, we know from ESB that non-Jedi can operate a lightsabre and we know from EP1 that it isn't totally outrageous for a non-jedi to have one, even in the time of the Republic. Didn't Boba Fett take out a few Jedi in his day? How many of their lightsabres ended up in the hands of rich collectors like Jabba?

I have no problem with non-Jedi using lightsabers. Nothing wrong with that at all. My point is that CREATING lightsabers requires some use of the Force. Now, those lightsabers that are used in the Corporate Sector could easily be 'leftovers' of sorts.

...and how do we know from EP1 that it isn't outrageous for a non-Jedi to ahve a lightsaber? I'd take it exactly the OPPOSITE, as Anakin sees Qui-Gon's blade and immediatly identifies him, as only Jedi carry the weapon.

 

[Aaron2]

My point is that CREATING lightsabers requires some use of the Force. Now, those lightsabers that are used in the Corporate Sector could easily be 'leftovers' of sorts.

The lightsabres they used were described as being of lesser quality to the ones the Jedi use. Of course, the Jedi have a monopoly on the good crystals, forcing the Sith (and others) to use the bad [red] ones.

Still, there are detailed instructions written down that describe the process used to make lightsabres. These instructions do not mention the use of the force (at least as far as we are told).

...and how do we know from EP1 that it isn't outrageous for a non-Jedi to ahve a lightsaber? I'd take it exactly the OPPOSITE, as Anakin sees Qui-Gon's blade and immediatly identifies him, as only Jedi carry the weapon.

But Anakin, at this point, is an uneducated boy. Qui-Gon corrects his erroneous assumption.


Aaron

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

The lightsabres they used were described as being of lesser quality to the ones the Jedi use. Of course, the Jedi have a monopoly on the good crystals, forcing the Sith (and others) to use the bad [red] ones.

Lesser Quality? Well, that could say something there about non-Jedi created sabers. And no, the Jedi don't have a monopoly on crystals. In fact, crystals are hard to find after he Battle of Ruusan. The planet with the majority of the crystals was totally ruined, leaving crystals that produce blue and green as simply more common.

As for Sith, the reason they use red is because they get their crystals from Korriban, the Sith homeworld. It has nothing to do with being 'forced' to by the Jedi. Though, arguably, the majority of Sith(During Tales of the Jedi stuff) actually used non-Red crystals, as they were fallen Jedi.

Still, there are detailed instructions written down that describe the process used to make lightsabres. These instructions do not mention the use of the force (at least as far as we are told).

...where?

But Anakin, at this point, is an uneducated boy. Qui-Gon corrects his erroneous assumption.

No he doesn't. He tries to bluff and say he killed a Jedi for it. Still, Jedi comes into play because its Jedi who use them. And Qui-Gon quickly gives up on this and admits the truth anyway.

 

[Aaron2]

...where?

The radio drama (see my post from a few weeks back). Its where the whole "align the crystal" thing came from to begin with.

No he doesn't. He tries to bluff and say he killed a Jedi for it. Still, Jedi comes into play because its Jedi who use them. And Qui-Gon quickly gives up on this and admits the truth anyway.

Qui-Gon can't keep lying to the kid. Notice how Anakin also thinks that Jedi are unkillable. Its all part of the Jedi lore.

I agree that using a lightsabre without skill in the force is an easy way to get new robotic limb. The cost and danger associated with lightsabres can easily account for their extremely rare usage. I don't see any need to come to the conclusion that they can't be manufactured. They way the Jedi are throwing them around in AotC suggests that they are simply tools. You don't see Obi-wan or Anakin suffers any loss in ability for using an unfamiliar one.


Aaron

 

[Ankh-Morpork Guard]

Qui-Gon can't keep lying to the kid. Notice how Anakin also thinks that Jedi are unkillable. Its all part of the Jedi lore.

I agree that using a lightsabre without skill in the force is an easy way to get new robotic limb. The cost and danger associated with lightsabres can easily account for their extremely rare usage. I don't see any need to come to the conclusion that they can't be manufactured. They way the Jedi are throwing them around in AotC suggests that they are simply tools. You don't see Obi-wan or Anakin suffers any loss in ability for using an unfamiliar one.

Like I said, I've got no problem with non-Jedi using lightsabers. In fact, it wouldn't surprise me at all if the Jedi of the Rise of the Empire Era had certain crafters just building excess lightsabers. Why? Who knows, paranoia maybe. But its apparent that someone is making extra ones considering those two tossed to Anakin and Obi-Wan. And no, they don't suffer a loss in ability, its just not THEIR lightsaber. A Jedi's personal lightsaber is an extension of the Jedi, hence, they a etter with their personal weapon. Hence...the +1 to attack.

Note, I'm talking in terms of the game here. And in the game, a Jedi is better with his own lightsaber. Also in the game, only Force Sensitive characters can create a lightsaber because it requires the use of the Force to attune the crystals.

 

[Greenboy]

In the first printing of the d20 SW book teh adventure at teh end as a light saber made with out use of the force as a plot hook