Non-lethal damage

[Zaukrie]

Are there rules for non-lethal damage in 4e? we could not find them in a quick perusal of the rules last night.

thanks,

 

[Sanzuo]

There aren't. When you defeat an enemy (drop below 1 hp) you have the option of subduing him rather than killing him.

 

[Milambus]

There aren't. When you defeat an enemy (drop below 1 hp) you have the option of subduing him rather than killing him.

Yes, there are you just said what they were =)

PHB pg 295, "Knocking Creatures Unconscious"

When you reduce a creature to 0 hit points or fewer, you can choose to knock it unconscious rather than kill it.

 

[Herschel]

Wow, that's really.....not logical. "Ha, I sliced you 42 times with my swords and you are bleeding profusely from every orifice and created bodily rift and with the final slice of the dwarf's battle axe you are....knocked unconscious."

I suppose it's an easy mechanic to work with this way, just not terribly logical. It's not like you beat them to a pulp and know they have 3 HP left and then you punch them in the jaw for the knockout, but I suppose it works.

 

[WhatGravitas]

Wow, that's really.....not logical. "Ha, I sliced you 42 times with my swords and you are bleeding profusely from every orifice and created bodily rift and with the final slice of the dwarf's battle axe you are....knocked unconscious."

Who says that every hit was a solid hit, slicing the victim?

Considering how healing surges work, I see HP more as a sort of "it's just a scratch" pool. For me, the first solid hit drawing blood is the hit that knocks the target to bloodied, and the second really connecting hit is the one bringing you below 0 hp - and that's either a deathblow or a thump on the head, depending what the PC wants.

But then, I lean to see HP as sort of "plot protection".

Cheers, LT.

 

[CubeKnight]

Wow, that's really.....not logical. "Ha, I sliced you 42 times with my swords and you are bleeding profusely from every orifice and created bodily rift and with the final slice of the dwarf's battle axe you are....knocked unconscious."

I suppose it's an easy mechanic to work with this way, just not terribly logical. It's not like you beat them to a pulp and know they have 3 HP left and then you punch them in the jaw for the knockout, but I suppose it works.

Friendly reminder: HP isn't just physical damage

Edit: Ninja'D

 

[Tale]

Wow, that's really.....not logical. "Ha, I sliced you 42 times with my swords and you are bleeding profusely from every orifice and created bodily rift and with the final slice of the dwarf's battle axe you are....knocked unconscious."

I suppose it's an easy mechanic to work with this way, just not terribly logical. It's not like you beat them to a pulp and know they have 3 HP left and then you punch them in the jaw for the knockout, but I suppose it works.

That would be because you've internalized HP into being something real when it's not.

 

[Zaukrie]

Herschel is a player in my campaign. He's an admitted grognard, and has issues to work through....

Thanks for the replies. Interesting.

I made them take a minus two to attack, under the assumption they were holding something back....

 

[Mouseferatu]

Herschel is a player in my campaign. He's an admitted grognard, and has issues to work through....

Well, we could talk about the fact that every edition claimed HP were more than just physical damage, but we won't.

I made them take a minus two to attack, under the assumption they were holding something back....

Keep in mind that they may not be holding something back.

Remember, PCs have negative hit points to track; monsters and most NPCs don't.

So don't think of knocking them out as "holding something back." Think of it as making sure the enemy doesn't bleed to death while they're at 0 hp. Basically, think of it as a short-cut abstraction of the negative hp that the PCs get.

 

[DreamChaser]

Well, we could talk about the fact that every edition claimed HP were more than just physical damage, but we won't.

Nice apophasis...

Honestly though, this has always been one of my big pet peeves about many long-time gamers. Each new edition we are faced with the suddenly brand new idea that HP do not equal physical damage alone and the nerd rage begins.

Now, to be fair, this is the first edition where the healing mechanic reflected this to make the HP =/= physical damage believable but still...

DC