Non-Spellcasting Bard?

[Cherub]

Dude, the spellless Bard is in the PHB. Look under "Rogue". They get Perform, too!

If that doesn't suit you, try talking to the GM, and see what he'll give you in return for losing spellcasting. I think I'd go for better weapons proficiencies and HPs, maybe saves.

DITTO This. I think you're better off taking levels in Rogue and maxing out on skills like Perform and Sleight of Hand, etc, and perhaps multi-classing in Wizard / Sorcerer and Fighter. IMHO, the PHB spellcasting Bard has never made sense to me. I can dig the character concept, but I dont think it justifies having a Core Class to support the concept, let alone, a Core Class that casts spells - But thats just me.

 

[LostSoul]

My simple solution was to give the bard a bonus feat whenever he would have gained a new spell level (1st, 2nd, 4th, 7th, etc.).

 

[JoeBlank]

I got home and took a look at the Marshall, which is in fact in the Miniatures Handbook. If you have access to this book, take a look. I think you could make very bard-like character that would be decent in combat, even without any rogue levels.

d8 hit die
BAB progression as rogue
good Fort and Will saves
4 skill points per level, and decent skills to choose from
simple and martial weapons, all armors
"Auras", which are similar in effect to bardic music, but a little more specific

This is getting added to my list of classes I need to eventually play

 

[Voadam]

Is Grim Tales D&D compatible? I thought it was a different d20 base system like Mutants and Masterminds or d20 Modern? Or is it just the magic system in it that is different?

 

[Dragonhelm]

You should check out the master class from Dragonlance, which appears in War of the Lance. The master is to the expert what the fighter is to the warrior.

There are four subclasses, each focused on one of the broad skill groups. You have the master craftsman, master performer, master professional, and the master sage. One of these subclasses becomes a primary focus, and another will be added as a secondary focus at 7th level. If you took master performer as your primary focus and master sage as your secondary focus, I think you'd have an excellent non-spellcasting bard.

Hope that helps!

 

[LostSoul]

Is Grim Tales D&D compatible? I thought it was a different d20 base system like Mutants and Masterminds or d20 Modern? Or is it just the magic system in it that is different?

It's got the six Hero types: Strong, Fast, Tough, etc. I imagine it could be used with D&D, although I'm not sure Grim Tales PCs are balanced with D&D PCs. Wulf would know more, of course.

 

[GlassJaw]

It's got the six Hero types: Strong, Fast, Tough, etc. I imagine it could be used with D&D, although I'm not sure Grim Tales PCs are balanced with D&D PCs. Wulf would know more, of course.

It's absolutely compatible. The classes are a tad different (they are more generic) and their power is probably slightly behind their D&D counterparts but GT's power is in customization. They only real change you could probably make is to change the GT classes BAB and save progression to be in line with D&D. Other than that, it should work seamlessly.

 

[Hjorimir]

The Noble in the Theives' World Player's Manual might do the trick for you. It's actually a pretty spiffy class.

 

[Voadam]

I looked up the valus bards last night, their skald variant only gets weapon focus in return for dropping two class skills, not what you are looking for.

Crothian has a good review of Unorthodox Bards on here and the classes it includes.

 

[Voadam]

From Crothian's review:

The Minstrel is a typical archetype of the Bard. Many people have complained that the Bard is too Minstrel oriented, but this alternate core class really shows the true differences. And the difference is the spells. Instead of getting the traditional bard spells the Minstrel gets spell like abilities that use its music. The class is not going to be more combat oriented then the Bard but its abilities are very much in line with the ideas behind the class.

The Skald is another great Bard archetype. They get better hit points and good fort save instead of a good reflex save. They also don’t have the bard like spells. They get the ability to inscribe magic runes. It is a great detail that really fits the archetype.