Non-Vancian Magic systems
- Thread starter MerricB
- Start date
thol
Explorer
RoleMaster.
spells of like kind are organized in lists. as you gain "XP" you can spend them on the next level of a particular list. each level is more powerful than the last. i think, but am not positive, that all lists had 10 spells. here's a fake example:
Cold Law
1. Ice Touch - 1d4, touch
2. Resist Cold - immune to 10 pts of cold damage
3. Ball of Frost - 3d6, ranged area effect
4. Ice Touch II - 5d4, touch
5. Resist Cold II - immune to 15 points of cold damage
6. Ice Wall
7. Ball of Frost II - 8d6, ranged area effect
8. Resist Cold II - immune to 30 points of cold damage
9. Frost Storm - 12d6, ranged area effect
10. Summon Ice Beast
depending on class, background, etc. you have different access to lists.
spells of like kind are organized in lists. as you gain "XP" you can spend them on the next level of a particular list. each level is more powerful than the last. i think, but am not positive, that all lists had 10 spells. here's a fake example:
Cold Law
1. Ice Touch - 1d4, touch
2. Resist Cold - immune to 10 pts of cold damage
3. Ball of Frost - 3d6, ranged area effect
4. Ice Touch II - 5d4, touch
5. Resist Cold II - immune to 15 points of cold damage
6. Ice Wall
7. Ball of Frost II - 8d6, ranged area effect
8. Resist Cold II - immune to 30 points of cold damage
9. Frost Storm - 12d6, ranged area effect
10. Summon Ice Beast
depending on class, background, etc. you have different access to lists.
jester47
First Post
It occured to me today that the reason that the "vancian" (its close but not quite what was portrayed in Dying Earth) magic system is so ingrained and hard to get rid of is the fact that fire and forget has a limiting factor. A skill based magic system does not, and the point based magic system has the same problems as a point based psionics system.
Then it occured to me that it is only flavor text that causes the wizard to "forget" the spell. It could easily be that when the wizard casts the energies used for those spells needs to replenish and the "study time" that he takes to memorise spells could just be him taking the time to prepare the energies into spells he knows. Thus he does not really forget.
Anyways all the other systems that I have seen (next to the one in mage) are either skill or point based. I have come up with a way of doing it based on skills and vancian slots... Simply put, your slots are determined by your spellcraft ranks (and ranks only). The level of the spell determines how many slots it takes up. A first level character would have access to fourth level spells. But they would get only one... Its up to the DM to limit the spells the character can get. (note this system also works off of a classless and leveless system, where starting skill ranks can't go over 4.)
Aaron.
Then it occured to me that it is only flavor text that causes the wizard to "forget" the spell. It could easily be that when the wizard casts the energies used for those spells needs to replenish and the "study time" that he takes to memorise spells could just be him taking the time to prepare the energies into spells he knows. Thus he does not really forget.
Anyways all the other systems that I have seen (next to the one in mage) are either skill or point based. I have come up with a way of doing it based on skills and vancian slots... Simply put, your slots are determined by your spellcraft ranks (and ranks only). The level of the spell determines how many slots it takes up. A first level character would have access to fourth level spells. But they would get only one... Its up to the DM to limit the spells the character can get. (note this system also works off of a classless and leveless system, where starting skill ranks can't go over 4.)
Aaron.
I have played under this system, but I thought it made spell-slingers too powerful:
A caster gains a number of spell points (SP) per day equal to Spell Level x Spell Slots. Casting a spell requires a number of SP equal to the spell's level... Thus, a high level caster can use first level spells all day, or a few more high level ones. This allows the caster tremendous flexibility. Maybe too much!
I think one way to limit this more would be to limit the number of spells a slinger can memorize at once (like RuneQuest 2 did). Probably Intelligence as the number of spells is too low, but some limit could be implemented.
A caster gains a number of spell points (SP) per day equal to Spell Level x Spell Slots. Casting a spell requires a number of SP equal to the spell's level... Thus, a high level caster can use first level spells all day, or a few more high level ones. This allows the caster tremendous flexibility. Maybe too much!
I think one way to limit this more would be to limit the number of spells a slinger can memorize at once (like RuneQuest 2 did). Probably Intelligence as the number of spells is too low, but some limit could be implemented.
applenerd
First Post
It's been a while since I took a look at it but I was VERY impressed with the magic system in the d20 Wheel of Time book. I'm very tempted to use that magic system as the primary form of magic in my next campaign. It is very close to what the novels present which is impressive on it's own but mostly I love the cinematic aspect of being able to try to cast higher than your ability at risk of severe personal injury.
Jack Daniel
Legend
I only recently (read, a couple of sessions ago) switched back to an MP-based system that I wrote for AD&D 2nd edition. If you want to take a look at it, it's outlined in my House Rules Compendium. So far, everything still seems balanced, and all of my players seem to be enjoying the added flexibility.
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DWARF
First Post
The Arcana Unearthed system seems to have a good balance, to me.
Basically, you still have spell slots, but you don't put specific spells in the slots until you cast them. Then, you have a completely different set of "spells known at a time" list. So then you memorize a given set of spells for the day and cast from them using your slots.
You effectively become a Sorceror, but you can change the spells you know with an hours meditation from a much larger list.
Basically, you still have spell slots, but you don't put specific spells in the slots until you cast them. Then, you have a completely different set of "spells known at a time" list. So then you memorize a given set of spells for the day and cast from them using your slots.
You effectively become a Sorceror, but you can change the spells you know with an hours meditation from a much larger list.
ciaran00
Explorer
That's an interesting sorceror variant. How is its balance working out?Jack Daniel said:
And in response to the first post... check this thread:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=74422
ciaran
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Urban Arcana has a system called incantations. You need to make x Knowledge (Arcana) checks (DC varies) to be able to cast. Spells can be built in a similar way to using epic spell seeds. Casting is slow and you not going to be doing anything flashy. Incantations have just been added to the Modern SRD (http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/msrd).
d20CoC used a system that casting spells caused temp / perm attribute damage (depending on the spell), ritual spell casting involved splitting the damage between all casters. For some spells it was the only way to cast them without keeling over dead.
d20CoC used a system that casting spells caused temp / perm attribute damage (depending on the spell), ritual spell casting involved splitting the damage between all casters. For some spells it was the only way to cast them without keeling over dead.
Jack Daniel
Legend
A friend of mine (the co-creator of our campaign setting) is also running a game using these rules, and he only has two PCs, a sorcerer and a specialist wizard. There couldn't be a more ideal playtest environment. From what I've heard, it's still balanced, but that balance can apparently be broken if the wizard starts to have it too easy aquiring new spells.ciaran00 said:
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