Not a Conspiracy Theory: Moving Toward Better Criticism in RPGs

[hawkeyefan]

And who gets to define them? By what criteria?

That's the problem here; in general when you get into film or novels, its long been shaken down, and often not in a neutral process (look at the discussion of Western European fiction for the latter for example). Here, there's no such established canon, and as such, you either have to convince other participants to accept yours, or work out a mutually acceptable set.

To which I say, good luck with either of those.

Again, there won't be total consensus, but I feel like there are some pretty clearly important games that many would agree upon, in the same way that many agree Citizen Kane is an important film, or Of Mice and Men is an important book.

Because without these alternate standards, what happens is that everything gets compared to D&D by default, and that seems to ruffle some feathers.

So it'd probably be good for all if we could find or use other standards.

Can we use Vampire: The Masquerade first edition? Will anyone get up in arms if people use that game for comparative purposes?

 

[Ruin Explorer]

Well, sometimes you have the issue that to a poster, that is the point, and everything else dwarfs it in significance. If its been moved on from, that will either seem like everyone is either just rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic (i.e. bothering to talk about minor issues when the main problem makes everything else moot), or has disregarded how significant it is. Though it may not be productive, its not entirely surprising in those cases that they're not going to let it go.

Definitely. Seen that and probably been that lol.

 

[JAMUMU]

Can we use Vampire: The Masquerade first edition? Will anyone get up in arms if people use that game for comparative purposes?

Man, my copy is seriously falling apart. Someone else is going to have to pony up theirs, or we all split for a roll of gaffer tape.

 

[Manbearcat]

I don't know...I've seen people on the blades in the dark reddit make posts about how they actually prep for their game, including doing things like drawing maps, because it helps them. Woe to the new poster who says something similar here; they will be told, flat out, that they are playing incorrectly, and this conversation will go on for about 100 pages. Now, if people want to theorize among themselves fine, but if you (general you) want to acknowledge that you are an interested advocate for a certain game or type of game, you'll need to consider how you talk about those games, especially to new players.

Just saw this. Not looking to pick a fight, but definitely want to clarify (as I certainly feel included in this commentary even if its not intended).

I'm totally good with ephemera or tools like maps and the sort. I mean, the book itself has a low resolution, keyed map and there is a really cool higher resolution, district map supplement for the game which I employ now and again as we're Info Gathering our way through prospective Scores.

I mean...I've even developed (and employed in a Transport/Journey Score) what amounts to a (table-facing) pseudo hex crawl map for The Deathlands to (a) provide players with vital decision-space for course charted and (b) generate various thematic obstacles with Scale and Magnitude contingent upon (I) course charted through the hex map and (II) Fortune Rolls! I'm not remotely against aids like these.

What I get involved with are big things that amount to "superstructure violations" or small things that feed directly into such superstructure violations:

* Significantly deviating from the core, encoded structure/loop of play.

* Players turtling or overplanning (violations of multiple foundational Player's Best Practices).

* GM's prepping metaplots and/or railroading Scores (which is a violation of multiple foundational aspects of GM Goals, Principles, Best Practices).


It is Totally Cool TM to play Blades in the Dark however one likes. But subsequently extrapolating from your hacked/heavily drifted Home Game positions like "Blades in the Dark is x/y/z" when you didn't actually engage or test x/y/z? That is an issue for me so I tend to engage with that. Its an issue for me when people do that in sports, natural sciences, martial arts, and any other number of things (it just so happens that we're on a TTRPG forum!).

 

[JAMUMU]

Just saw this. Not looking to pick a fight, but definitely want to clarify (as I certainly feel included in this commentary even if its not intended).

I'm totally good with ephemera or tools like maps and the sort. I mean, the book itself has a low resolution, keyed map and there is a really cool higher resolution, district map supplement for the game which I employ now and again as we're Info Gathering our way through prospective Scores.

I mean...I've even developed (and employed in a Transport/Journey Score) what amounts to a pseudo hex crawl map for The Deathlands to generate various thematic obstacles with Scale and Magnitude contingent upon (a) course charted through the hex map and (b) Fortune Rolls! I'm not remotely against aids like these.

What I get involved with are big things that amount of "superstructure violations" or small things that feed directly into such superstructure violations:

* Significantly deviating from the core, encoded structure/loop of play.

* Players turtling or overplanning (violations of multiple foundational Player's Best Practices).

* GM's prepping metaplots and/or railroading Scores (which is a violation of multiple foundational aspects of GM Goals, Principles, Best Practices).


It is Totally Cool TM to play Blades in the Dark however one likes. But subsequently extrapolating from your hacked/heavily drifted Home Game positions like "Blades in the Dark is x/y/z" when you didn't actually engage or test x/y/z? That is an issue for me so I tend to engage with that. Its an issue for me when people do that in sports, natural sciences, martial arts, and any other number of things (it just so happens that we're on a TTRPG forum!).

I get this. It's one thing to describe how your group ended up deviating from the game's (any game's) procedures as play progressed, and what happened when you did, and quite another to deviate from the RAW and then try to rationalise that as a) a problem with the system, or b) the way it should be played.

 

[pemerton]

But what happens here is different. A discussion is started about RPG theory in general, eventually some examples from non-D&D games are provided. Am I supposed to be shut off from the whole RPG theory discussion because someone cited a game I’m not very familiar with? Should I just shut up and listen? If so that screams gate keeping to me. It’s became - cite X game example and expect others to leave the discussion - especially those most likely to disagree.

If you're not familiar with RPGs other than D&D and D&D-likes, how are you going to contribute to any general analysis of RPGing? What evidence base would you draw on? What examples would you have ready to hand?

How any individual poster deals with the fact that they don't know much about RPGs other than D&D is their prerogative. But I don't see how they can insist on being taken seriously if they lack the requisite knowledge and experience.

 

[Maxperson]

So…

Are we just not going to comment on this being the most creepy dog whistle of an inquisition thread of all time? Which is saying something because this ain’t the first (or 2nd, 3rd, 4th…) of this type!

 

[Maxperson]

Honestly, as the "new guy" I don't know what you think of me, and maybe you think I am utterly disqualified from participating, but this is perplexing.

As a long time poster, very few people are unqualified to post in the threads here, and most of those are associated with NuTSR. I've been enjoying your posts in the various threads I've seen them.

 

[soviet]

Man, my copy is seriously falling apart. Someone else is going to have to pony up theirs, or we all split for a roll of gaffer tape.

A classic sign of either:

• a seminal, beloved text

or:

• piss-poor binding

 

[Grendel_Khan]

Well sure I have, but within the confines of the system (in my case D&D), not to change or refine the system itself. Generally speaking, I don't have time for that, even if I wanted to or had the right expertise.

If you're posting on here you have the time. It's not rocket science.