D&D (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[Ashrym]

I just wonder how many DMs would enforce this? It just seems so nitpicky. Especially given the leeway clerics and paladins are given with shields. It seems punative to enforce this on the EK when it's kind of their schtick to cast spells while wielding shields and armour. Because, even without taking shillelagh, an EK can't wield a sword and shield and cast the spell shield. They, literally, need to wield a staff.

It would have been nice if they had a power that their bonded weapon could work as a spellcasting focus. Which still wouldn't solve the shillelagh issue but at least they could cast their own spells.

I agree that EK's should be able to use their bonded weapon as a spell focus, but it would still apply to their wizard spells.

Clerics and paladins have leeway because holy symbols don't need to be held, only worn.

Holy Symbols​

Symbol	Weight	Cost
Amulet (worn or held)	1 lb.	5 GP
Emblem (borne on fabric or a Shield)	—	5 GP
Reliquary (held)	2 lb.	5 GP

and

to use a Spellcasting Focus, you must hold it unless its description says otherwise

That's an advantage to playing a cleric or paladin. They only need to wear their holy symbol depending on the type, but that doesn't necessarily give them a free hand if they might need one either. A cleric wearing a shield also can't cast Shillelagh that way unless it's become a cleric spell for them somehow.

A spell component pouch also requires a free hand.

The easiest solution for EK's is recognizing and accepting that shields or two weapons can become problematic and build for a two-handed weapon. Otherwise, a person needs to figure out work arounds like the warlock splash.

As for what a DM may or may not enforce, that's speculative. I don't think we can discuss how rules interact if we're speculating on house rulings outside of the printed material.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

The easiest solution for EK's is recognizing and accepting that shields or two weapons can become problematic and build for a two-handed weapon. Otherwise, a person needs to figure out work arounds like the warlock splash.

As for what a DM may or may not enforce, that's speculative. I don't think we can discuss how rules interact if we're speculating on house rulings outside of the printed material.

I get it. But it sucks that the best way, then, is to have to multi-class or get pigeon-holed into a particular play style. Or pay a feat tax.

And having to multi-class is a huge insult to the class if it can't stand on its own.

 

[ECMO3]

Going warlock does not give you a wizard attack cantrip either.

So this depends on the definition of "wizard cantrip" which was really the original issue for this thread.

"Wizard Cantrip" is not specific. As noted by others on this thread it could mean:

Any Cantrip on the Wizard list regardless of how you got it (so getting those from Warlock would work)
Any Cantrip you cast with Intelligence (I don't see the argument for this definition personally)
Any cantrip you get from a Wizard class feature or an EK subclass feature or Magic Initiate-Wizard
Any Cantrip you got from the EK subclass specifically (in context this clearly seems to be RAI to me).

Truestrike and Green Flame Blade are both on the Wizard list and therefore meet the first definition whether you get them from Magic Initiate or a Warlock dip. If your DM takes a more strict interpretation then this is not an option.

So possibly
Magic Initiate (wizard) for Wis Truestrike
Fighter 1 for con saves.
Ranger 1 for Hunter's Mark.
EK 11 for the 3rd attack, Warcaster, resilient (Dex), Defensive Duelist.
Gloomstalker 3.
Arcane Trickster 4 for sneak attack and slots.
EK 12 for epic boon.
Gloomstalker 4 for 2nd epic boon.

I don;t thing this is going to be very effective. Your Sneak Attack is 2d6 which will not make up for using a weaker weapon for the other two attacks and neither a club or staff meet the reqs for sneak attack. You are also not getting much (anything) out of the 10th level EK ability.

 

[mellored]

I get it. But it sucks that the best way, then, is to have to multi-class or get pigeon-holed into a particular play style. Or pay a feat tax.

And having to multi-class is a huge insult to the class if it can't stand on its own.

Nothing wrong with an EK with a Greatsword who just spams Shield with all their slots and refreshes BladeWard whenever it drops.

Or play keep away with longbow + Ray of frost.

Or a halfling who shoots and uses minor illusion to hide behind a box.

Or combined Fog Cloud with Blind Fighting for always advantage.

Or just having unseen servants you can send forward to trigger traps.


Not sure focusing on single target damage over everything else is the "best way" to play an Eldritch Knight.

 

[mellored]

So this depends on the definition of "wizard cantrip" which was really the original issue for this thread.

"Wizard Cantrip" is not specific.

IMO, it's a wizard cantrip you got from the wizard spell list.

I don't how picking from the Warlock spell list would give you a wizard spell. Even if they are on both.

I don;t thing this is going to be very effective. Your Sneak Attack is 2d6 which will not make up for using a weaker weapon for the other two attacks and neither a club or staff meet the reqs for sneak attack.

Dagger with Nick, does.
Which triggers off a club.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Nothing wrong with an EK with a Greatsword who just spams Shield with all their slots and refreshes BladeWard whenever it drops.

Or play keep away with longbow + Ray of frost.

Or a halfling who shoots and uses minor illusion to hide behind a box.

Or combined Fog Cloud with Blind Fighting for always advantage.

Or just having unseen servants you can send forward to trigger traps.


Not sure focusing on single target damage over everything else is the "best way" to play an Eldritch Knight.

true. All options I did not consider. Edit: except for unseen servants. Unsung heroes.

 

[mellored]

Also, I just realized that EK 10 is not limited to one creature.

Action Surge
shoot 2 enemies, pushing them closer of needed (any weapon)
cast sleep on both while they have disadvantage.

At 13, push 3 creatures and drop Hypnotic Pattern.

Also, improved war magic can go on the same action as war magic. Mind sliver + Sleep work.

Level 20, hit, cleave/nick, mind sliver, sleep, action surge, hit, cleave/nick, mind sliver, sleep. 4 sleeps, 4 disadvantage, 2 with another 1d4 penalty (assuming everything lands).

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

For the 2014 rules, they did allow clerics and paladins to perform somatic components while holding a shield as long as it had their holy symbol on it. This was never explicitly stated in the PHB but rather something allowed via Sage Advice. Everyone else still had to take War Caster.

The equipment section of the 2014 PHB explicitly states that a holy symbol can be an emblem on a shield.

 

[clearstream]

I agree that EK's should be able to use their bonded weapon as a spell focus, but it would still apply to their wizard spells.

Quick check of spells in core that are Material while not being Somatic

Darkness​

Featherfall​

Suggestion​

Tongues​

Which just confirms that the lack of a no-hands spell focus isn't really the issue here (barring a cute blindfighting EK at 7th level, or one who falls down a lot). In their turn they can draw and sheath their weapon, making a hand free, but that limits opportunity attacks. Seems you are right and one should focus on a 2H fighting approach.

Alternatively, take Arcana and Smith's Tools (such as via Noble background) and then craft yourself an enspelled sword (shield) taking 10 days at a cost of 200gp for materials (75% chance in a city each week they're available).

​

The weapon has 6 charges and regains 1d6 expended charges daily at dawn. While holding the weapon, you can expend 1 charge to cast its spell.​

​

The spell is cast at the lowest possible spell and caster level, doesn’t expend any of the user’s spell slots, and requires no components unless the item’s description notes otherwise. The spell uses its normal casting time, range, and duration, and the user of the item must concentrate if the spell requires Concentration.​

​

One odd miss in the text seems to be that no one can craft shields. I assume they're spontaneously born into the material plane fully formed.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

Any Cantrip you got from the EK subclass specifically (in context this clearly seems to be RAI to me).

This does not make sense. Consider a multiclass EK/Wizard. Clearly the spells they acquired from their wizard class are also, by definition, wizard spells. So why rule out spells from Magic Initiate (wizard)?

Personally, I would use the broadest interpretation possible. The game isn't about "aha! But you can't do that because...". That kind of gameplay is not fun, so it breaks the new rule zero.

If you think stacking Shield spell with an actual shield is too strong, just rule that the AC bonuses don't stack, only the highest applies.