D&D (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[CreamCloud0]

On that note, though, the 2024 version of Shillelagh can only be used on a club or a quarterstaff.

honestly i think it's such a shame shillelagh only works on those two weapons, i mean, i know that a shillelagh is a specific real weapon but the base premise of the spell i think it would be really interesting if it was expanded to cover a handful more weapons, maybe merged it's use with magic stone, make it so it affects all weapons/ammunition created purely from natural materials and have it cover say, clubs, greatclubs, lighthammers, quarterstaffs, spears, all weapons that use arrows, slings, whips and blowguns, even if you still need proficiency to use those weapons it opens up some fun playspace.

 

[clearstream]

There's this bit: "A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."

So if you have a holy symbol on your shield you are holding a spellcasting focus with that hand, and can use it to perform somatic components for spells that also have material components.

Also: "to use a Spellcasting Focus, you must hold it unless its description says otherwise"

So if you are using a spellcasting focus to obviate the M component, you must be holding it.* Making that hand not free. (Noting in "this bit" you added the words "or to hold a spellcasting focus" where they do not appear in the original text.) In 2014 the text Somatic component text read (in part)

If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.​

​

revised in 2024 to

​

A spellcaster must use at least one of their hands to perform these movements.​

​

Reverting again to my argument that the Sage Advice text added something: and that addition's presence in the SA text - the need for SA on the matter - makes its absence from the 2024 text telling (a reversion to the plain text meaning.)

*What the cleric and paladin spellcasting text is doing, is conferring the status of a spellcasting focus on a shield, so that in holding that shield you are holding a spellcasting focus.

 

[clearstream]

@Sorcerers Apprentice Although I don't find the text ambiguous, it's possible that it doesn't say what it intends to say. Were that so, then we've no explanation for it not being updated accordingly in 2024.*

It would also make the mechanical explanation of a spellcasting focus hard to properly explain, seeing as if "holding a spellcasting focus" meant that M and S components were both covered then surely the text could say exactly that. Consider

Spellcasting Focus​

If they have a feature that allows it, a spellcaster can perform somatic gestures with a Spellcasting Focus they are holding and substitute using that focus for providing materials that are neither consumed nor specify a cost.​

​

Instead, you're assuming the designers thought your reading sufficiently well implied notwithstanding that they had previously felt compelled to publish Sage Advice on that very matter.​

​

*EDIT As a footnote, I do find you reasoning "a spellcasting focus replaces certain materials so that anywhere said materials appear in the text can be interchangeably read as a reference to the focus" sound. Above, I'm focused on the RAW in the context that it was not meaningfully revised even though it was formerly deemed inaccurate. It ought to be preferred that the text means what it plainly says, rather than what it might be inferred to say.​

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

Nothing wrong with an EK with a Greatsword who just spams Shield with all their slots and refreshes BladeWard whenever it drops.

Or play keep away with longbow + Ray of frost.

Or a halfling who shoots and uses minor illusion to hide behind a box.

Or combined Fog Cloud with Blind Fighting for always advantage.

Or just having unseen servants you can send forward to trigger traps.


Not sure focusing on single target damage over everything else is the "best way" to play an Eldritch Knight.

I'm looking at the blind fighting tactic....it's good but it's a bit situational.

You blind your whole party as well as your enemies so placement and timing will be crucial and won't always be convenient. You give up having a different fighting style that you can use 90% of combats for one that you're going to use occasionally.

I mention it because I'm thinking of trying it in my next game.

 

[clearstream]

I'm looking at the blind fighting tactic....it's good but it's a bit situational.

You blind your whole party as well as your enemies so placement and timing will be crucial and won't always be convenient. You give up having a different fighting style that you can use 90% of combats for one that you're going to use occasionally.

I mention it because I'm thinking of trying it in my next game.

To quantify "good" - against foes lacking means to see through magical darkness, you gain advantage and they gain disadvantage. Combined with AC 18 and shield they are very unlikely to connect with their attack rolls, nor can they target you with anything requiring LoS.

Super-good then, but also as you say rather situational.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Also: "to use a Spellcasting Focus, you must hold it unless its description says otherwise"

So if you are using a spellcasting focus to obviate the M component, you must be holding it.* Making that hand not free. (Noting in "this bit" you added the words "or to hold a spellcasting focus" where they do not appear in the original text.) In 2014 the text Somatic component text read (in part)

If a spell requires a somatic component, the caster must have free use of at least one hand to perform these gestures.​

​

revised in 2024 to

​

A spellcaster must use at least one of their hands to perform these movements.​

​

Reverting again to my argument that the Sage Advice text added something: and that addition's presence in the SA text - the need for SA on the matter - makes its absence from the 2024 text telling (a reversion to the plain text meaning.)

*What the cleric and paladin spellcasting text is doing, is conferring the status of a spellcasting focus on a shield, so that in holding that shield you are holding a spellcasting focus.

The quoted text is directly from the 2014 basic rules, under Material components: https://www.dndbeyond.com/sources/dnd/basic-rules-2014/spellcasting#MaterialM

Remember that the 2014 rules are written i "natural language", so it's not super precise. If you read a rule and it appears not to do anything, it's probably meant to be read another way. The rule allowing you to perform somatic components with the same hand holding a holy symbol would be pointless if you were still required to have a free hand.

 

[ECMO3]

This does not make sense. Consider a multiclass EK/Wizard. Clearly the spells they acquired from their wizard class are also, by definition, wizard spells. So why rule out spells from Magic Initiate (wizard)?

I don't think that is the intent given the context it is used. If you read the section begining to end in context I think it is clear that it is intended to mean the spells you get from EK. The terms "Wizard cantirp" and "Wizard spell" are used several places inside the Eldritch Knight subclass description and most of the time they only can refer specifically to the spells you get from the subclass.

To accept a different interpretation you would need to accept that the terms "Wizard cantrip" and "Wizard spell" change meaning in different places in the section.

As I mentioned in the beginning of this thread the wording is poor, and they really should have used the term "Fighter cantrip" or something like that.

 

[ECMO3]

Nothing wrong with an EK with a Greatsword who just spams Shield with all their slots and refreshes BladeWard whenever it drops.

Or play keep away with longbow + Ray of frost.

Or a halfling who shoots and uses minor illusion to hide behind a box.

Or combined Fog Cloud with Blind Fighting for always advantage.

Or just having unseen servants you can send forward to trigger traps.

There is nothing wrong with that, but you are not getting much mileage out of many of your subclass features if you do that.

 

[TaranTheWanderer]

To quantify "good" - against foes lacking means to see through magical darkness, you gain advantage and they gain disadvantage. Combined with AC 18 and shield they are very unlikely to connect with their attack rolls, nor can they target you with anything requiring LoS.

Super-good then, but also as you say rather situational.

AC 18 depends on the build. You need 15 strength for full plate. A lot of these builds lack the strength and, as was pointed out, you probably aren’t fighting with a shield.

And, sure, you can’t get targeted by spells but neither can your spell casters target anyone.

Great weapon fighting or two weapon fighting will get used every fight.

It’s nice that you can swap it out when you level. As mentioned earlier, I’m building him for a heist game. We want to avoid fights so blind fighting is going to have some good uses out of combat for skulking around in the dark.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I don't think that is the intent given the context it is used. If you read the section begining to end in context I think it is clear that it is intended to mean the spells you get from EK. The terms "Wizard cantirp" and "Wizard spell" are used several places inside the Eldritch Knight subclass description and most of the time they only can refer specifically to the spells you get from the subclass

So, what you are saying is, a wizard doesn't cast wizard spells.