D&D (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[clearstream]

Contemplating a 2H EK, possibly

Str 17 (15+2) Dex 10 Con 14 Int 14 (13+1) Cha 10
HP 60 (at 7th) AC 18 (or 19)

Orc: Adrenaline Rush, Darkvision, Relentless Endurance

Fighter: Athletics, History
Noble: Persuasion, Religion
Skilled: Arcana, Investigation, Smith's Tools

Fighting Style: Blindfighting (Defence would be more sensible)
Weapon Masteries: Halberd (Cleave), Javelin (Slow), Maul (Topple), Dagger (at 4th)
Feats: Great Weapon Master, Strength +2
Bonds: Halberd, Javelin

Spells: blade ward, mage hand, featherfall, jump, shield, darkness, misty step

They hit things, and they know things.

In mid-tier with halberd they can hit, cleave, hew, hit. All with +3 damage from GWM. In turn 1 and then each tenth round, replacing one attack with blade ward. Bonded javelin slows foes that flee. Improved mobility from featherfall, jump and misty step.

As soon as they get their hands on a spare 200gp, crafts an enspelled weapon of shield. With 50 days and 2000gp they can put misty step into their armor.

 

[pukunui]

The equipment section of the 2014 PHB explicitly states that a holy symbol can be an emblem on a shield.

Yes. What's not explicitly stated is that 2014 clerics and paladins can essentially gain the "casting with hands full" benefit of the War Caster feat for free simply by putting their holy symbol on their shield. That's the bit that was explained via the Sage Advice Compendium:

What’s the amount of interaction needed to use a spellcasting focus? Does it have to be included in the
somatic component?

If a spell has a material component, you need to handle that component when you cast the spell (PH, 203). The same rule applies if you’re using a spellcasting focus as the material component.

If a spell has a somatic component, you can use the hand that performs the somatic component to also handle the material component. For example, a wizard who uses an orb as a spellcasting focus could hold a quarterstaff in one hand and the orb in the other, and he could cast lightning bolt by using the orb as the spell’s material component and the orb hand to perform the spell’s somatic component.

Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.

If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.

My emphasis

 

[clearstream]

Yes. What's not explicitly stated is that 2014 clerics and paladins can essentially gain the "casting with hands full" benefit of the War Caster feat for free simply by putting their holy symbol on their shield. That's the bit that was explained via the Sage Advice Compendium:

What’s the amount of interaction needed to use a spellcasting focus? Does it have to be included in the
somatic component?

If a spell has a material component, you need to handle that component when you cast the spell (PH, 203). The same rule applies if you’re using a spellcasting focus as the material component.

If a spell has a somatic component, you can use the hand that performs the somatic component to also handle the material component. For example, a wizard who uses an orb as a spellcasting focus could hold a quarterstaff in one hand and the orb in the other, and he could cast lightning bolt by using the orb as the spell’s material component and the orb hand to perform the spell’s somatic component.

Another example: a cleric’s holy symbol is emblazoned on her shield. She likes to wade into melee combat with a mace in one hand and a shield in the other. She uses the holy symbol as her spellcasting focus, so she needs to have the shield in hand when she casts a cleric spell that has a material component. If the spell, such as aid, also has a somatic component, she can perform that component with the shield hand and keep holding the mace in the other.

If the same cleric casts cure wounds, she needs to put the mace or the shield away, because that spell doesn’t have a material component but does have a somatic component. She’s going to need a free hand to make the spell’s gestures. If she had the War Caster feat, she could ignore this restriction.

My emphasis

IIRC that is the Sage Advice for 2014 text, right? Is there similar text for 2024 yet?

 

[pukunui]

IIRC that is the Sage Advice for 2014 text, right? Is there similar text for 2024 yet?

Yes, that's from the 2014 Sage Advice Compendium.

No, there's no 2024 Sage Advice yet (frustratingly).

 

[clearstream]

Yes, that's from the 2014 Sage Advice Compendium.

No, there's no 2024 Sage Advice yet (frustratingly).

There are examples of 2024 text overriding previous Sage Advice (such as for interrupting long rests) so baseline I'd expect the new text to include that usage were it intended to apply.

 

[pukunui]

There are examples of 2024 text overriding previous Sage Advice (such as for interrupting long rests) so baseline I'd expect the new text to include that usage were it intended to apply.

I dunno. It's hard to say. The new rules are clearer in some places and less clear in others, and it's not clear why that is the case. A new 2024 Sage Advice would be much appreciated.

FWIW the Sage Advice I quoted was in response to post referencing the 2014 rules, though, so it was applicable to that at least.

 

[clearstream]

Contemplating a 2H EK, possibly

Str 17 (15+2) Dex 10 Con 14 Int 14 (13+1) Cha 10
HP 60 (at 7th) AC 18 (or 19)

Orc: Adrenaline Rush, Darkvision, Relentless Endurance

Fighter: Athletics, History
Noble: Persuasion, Religion
Skilled: Arcana, Investigation, Smith's Tools

Fighting Style: Blindfighting (Defence would be more sensible)
Weapon Masteries: Halberd (Cleave), Javelin (Slow), Maul (Topple), Dagger (at 4th)
Feats: Great Weapon Master, Strength +2
Bonds: Halberd, Javelin

Spells: blade ward, mage hand, featherfall, jump, shield, darkness, misty step

They hit things, and they know things.

In mid-tier with halberd they can hit, cleave, hew, hit. All with +3 damage from GWM. In turn 1 and then each tenth round, replacing one attack with blade ward. Bonded javelin slows foes that flee. Improved mobility from featherfall, jump and misty step.

As soon as they get their hands on a spare 200gp, crafts an enspelled weapon of shield. With 50 days and 2000gp they can put misty step into their armor.

So having pursued @Ashrym's observation that

The easiest solution for EK's is recognizing and accepting that shields or two weapons can become problematic and build for a two-handed weapon.
​

Notwithstanding the interaction with Somatic components, which ought to have been better thought through, I like the new EK. That's not down to the combat pillar strengths, but to how easy it is to make the sub-class interesting in the social and exploration pillars. A mobile EK who "knows things" for instance, likely having good leverage on the narrative.

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Yes. What's not explicitly stated is that 2014 clerics and paladins can essentially gain the "casting with hands full" benefit of the War Caster feat for free simply by putting their holy symbol on their shield. That's the bit that was explained via the Sage Advice Compendium:

What other purpose would there be for putting your holy symbol on a shield? Every 5e group I've ever played in found it obvious that a cleric could perform somatic components with her shield hand just like any other kind of spellcasting focus. I can't really see any other way to interpret the rules in the PHB.

The sage advice didn't add anything new, it just gave some examples to help people who had trouble reading the rules.

 

[clearstream]

What other purpose would there be for putting your holy symbol on a shield? Every 5e group I've ever played in found it obvious that a cleric could perform somatic components with her shield hand just like any other kind of spellcasting focus. I can't really see any other way to interpret the rules in the PHB.

The sage advice didn't add anything new, it just gave some examples to help people who had trouble reading the rules.

Well, the text in the core books -- absent the Sage Advice -- states unambiguously that clerics and paladins may obviate their need for (inexpensive) Material components by putting their holy symbol on their shield, and that does not apply to Somatic components.

EDIT Following further discussion, I now believe that a spellcasting focus by intent covers both material components (that aren't costed or consumed) and somatic components.

So it seems inaccurate to characterise that as having "trouble reading the rules". The actual words lucidly state the maligned conclusion! Here is that text, for S and M components

Somatic (S)​

A Somatic component is a forceful gesticulation or an intricate set of gestures. A spellcaster must use at least one of their hands to perform these movements.​

​

Material (M)​

A Material component is a particular material used in a spell’s casting, as specified in parentheses in the Components entry. These materials aren’t consumed by the spell unless the spell’s description states otherwise. The spellcaster must have a hand free to access them, but it can be the same hand used to perform Somatic components, if any.​

​

If a spell doesn’t consume its materials and doesn’t specify a cost for them, a spellcaster can use a Component Pouch (see chapter 6) instead of providing the materials specified in the spell, or the spellcaster can substitute a Spellcasting Focus if the caster has a feature that allows that substitution. To use a Component Pouch, you must have a hand free to reach into it, and to use a Spellcasting Focus, you must hold it unless its description says otherwise (see chapter 6 for descriptions).​

​

For Clerics and Paladins

Spellcasting Focus. You can use a Holy Symbol as a Spellcasting Focus for your Cleric spells.​

​

For Warcaster to read that

Somatic Components. You can perform the Somatic components of spells even when you have weapons or a Shield in one or both hands.​

​

Very strongly implies that it cannot be done except where expressly afforded by a mechanic. Otherwise that part of the Warcaster text becomes (in effect) blank: the better reading sustains meaning in all parts of a text where possible.

EDIT The Warcaster text then has to be read as a panacea for characters without access to a spellcasting focus. Meaning I overstated this point as the feature is only sometimes irrelevant.

In the cited text, a spellcasting focus is tied to obviating M components. It takes a fairly strong misreading to interpret that otherwise. The Sage Advice indeed adds something new: expressly extending the effect of using a focus to cover S components. As I said above, given that the authors of 2024 text must have been aware of that Sage Advice, the fact it wasn't migrated into the core text implies (but doesn't prove) that it wasn't intended.

Caveat: that's based on text I've been able to find. Can you point to some text I've overlooked?

 

[Sorcerers Apprentice]

Caveat: that's based on text I've been able to find. Can you point to some text I've overlooked?

There's this bit: "A spellcaster must have a hand free to access a spell's material components -- or to hold a spellcasting focus -- but it can be the same hand that he or she uses to perform somatic components."

So if you have a holy symbol on your shield you are holding a spellcasting focus with that hand, and can use it to perform somatic components for spells that also have material components.