D&D 5E (2024) Not a fan of the new Eldritch Knight

[Ancoulainn]

Detp my bad Moon Druid with spirit guardians.

But then you have a Moon Druid with Conjure Woodland Beings, which is on the Druid spell list, and Conjure Woodland Beings is the stronger cousin of Spirit Guardians with 5d8 Force damage for a level 4 spell slot. And from a standpoint of flavor, Moon Druids and anything Moon-related that deals damage like Moonbeam, Fount of Moonlight, Starry Whisp, and Improved Lunar Radiance are tied to radiant damage, so I think Spirit Guardians would actually fit quite well.

I prefer the caps between the good players and casuals to be closer.

Recently we had a Bezerker Barbarian doing its thing and I could tell one player wasnt having as much fun as they were vastly outclassed. Both were playing strikers.

Its things like that.

I generally work with the less experienced players to make sure that doesn't happen by asking them what they want to do with their build and then providing suggestions how they get the most of what they want to do.

 

[Zardnaar]

Yeah, but then you have a Moon Druid with Conjure Woodland Beings, which is on the Druid spell list, and Conjure Woodland Beings is the stronger cousin of Spirit Guardians with 5d8 Force damage for a level 4 spell slot. I totally agree from a standpoint of flavor, but from a standpoint of power, it changes nothing.

I generally work with the less experienced players to make sure that doesn't happen by asking them what they want to do with their build and then providing suggestions how they get the most of what they want to do.

I try and do tgat but some are allergic to reading rules dense or obscure rules.

Watching one with GWM fea and we are trying to work out hew, cleave etc.

 

[Ancoulainn]

I try and do tgat but some are allergic to reading rules dense or obscure rules.

Watching one with GWM fea and we are trying to work out hew, cleave etc.

I always say that DnD is a hobby like any other. Regardless what hobby you pursue, whether you join a soccer league, a softball league, play poker, or take dancing lessons, you have to put in some effort. For example, you need to know what a straight is and whether it's higher or lower than a full-house if you want to play poker with your buddies. But if you join a soccer league, pick up the ball, run it over the sideline, and proclaim checkmate, you'll not fit in too well. DnD is no different. And new players always have the option to start off with a Champion Fighter and a few one-shots to keep things as simple as possible to begin with.

 

[Zardnaar]

I always say that DnD is a hobby like any other. Regardless what hobby you pursue, whether you join a soccer league, a softball league, play poker, or take dancing lessons, you have to put in some effort. For example, you need to know what a straight is and whether it's higher or lower than a full-house if you want to play poker with your buddies. But if you join a soccer league, pick up the ball, run it over the sideline, and proclaim checkmate, you'll not fit in too well. DnD is no different. And new players always have the option to start off with a Champion Fighter and a few one-shots to keep things as simple as possible to begin with.

Up to a point. Finding a veteran who knows the rules in depth is rare. Most are in existing groups or played previous editions.

Few play like ENworld assumes imho. Theyre very casual.

Mearls has talked anout this. 90% or so lean more towards casual play.

 

[Ancoulainn]

Up to a point. Finding a veteran who knows the rules in depth is rare. Most are in existing groups or played previous editions.

Few play like ENworld assumes imho. Theyre very casual.

Mearls has talked anout this. 90% or so lean more towards casual play.

You don't have to be a veteran. You just need to be respectful and put in some effort. If you consider that a DM may spend several hours each week prepping for the next session, just opening a book once to read a few pages about the things that apply directly to their character isn't too much to ask and is just being respectful of other people's time and, quite frankly, their own time. It's understandable when new players need time to get their feet wet and nobody's going to mind helping a new player out or giving them time to get their ducks in a row, but if this goes on for maybe months into a campaign, then it becomes a problem. If taking a little bit of time to learn their own character is too much to ask, then it's clear that the player simply does not care about the game and maybe shouldn't waste their own time and everyone else's.

However, all of that's still playing casually to me. When it gets to theorycrafting, optimizing, or min-maxing, that's when it becomes more in my book. And I don't think anybody is required to do any of that if they want to keep it casual. I also understand that on these forums, there are often discussions about niche mechanics that the average player does not care about and does not need to care about. I would say that these could be considered "obscure rules" as you call them. And sure, even when it comes to Mastery Properties, many people wondered for a long time whether the primary/main hand weapon had to have the Nick property or whether the weapon for the Light Property extra attack had to have the Nick property. But figuring out Hew of the Great Weapon Master feat or how the Cleave Mastery Property works is very straight-forward. You hit one creature and if another creature stands within 5 feet of the first, you can roll to hit that one as well if it's within your reach and for the damage, you don't add the ability modifier, but other modifiers like rage bonus and other damage riders still apply. I just wanted to see if I can - because I never had to - but I can't even explain it without repeating 80% of what the PHB says. Maybe I'd illustrate it on a battlemap if necessary.

I understand that not everyone sees it the way I see it, but I've been operating this way for years and I can't remember the last time when I didn't have at least one session that week. It must have been years. In fact, in the past few months, I had to turn down two invitations because between the campaigns I'm already playing and prepping my own, I just don't have the time for more at this point. At some point, the personalities of my characters even start to blur to the point that I actually had to read up on my own backstory one time to remember how I designed the guy.

So, it's working for me and personally, if I had to choose, I'd rather not play at all than waste my time. But overall, it works. My wife was pretty new to it a few years back and she read up on her stuff, started with easy classes, and slowly worked her way up to spellcasters and right now, we again have a new player at the table, but she read her stuff, listened to suggestions, and is now kicking butt and has a blast every week. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

 

[Zardnaar]

You don't have to be a veteran. You just need to be respectful and put in some effort. If you consider that a DM may spend several hours each week prepping for the next session, just opening a book once to read a few pages about the things that apply directly to their character isn't too much to ask and is just being respectful of other people's time and, quite frankly, their own time. It's understandable when new players need time to get their feet wet and nobody's going to mind helping a new player out or giving them time to get their ducks in a row, but if this goes on for maybe months into a campaign, then it becomes a problem. If taking a little bit of time to learn their own character is too much to ask, then it's clear that the player simply does not care about the game and maybe shouldn't waste their own time and everyone else's.

However, all of that's still playing casually to me. When it gets to theorycrafting, optimizing, or min-maxing, that's when it becomes more in my book. And I don't think anybody is required to do any of that if they want to keep it casual. I also understand that on these forums, there are often discussions about niche mechanics that the average player does not care about and does not need to care about. I would say that these could be considered "obscure rules" as you call them. And sure, even when it comes to Mastery Properties, many people wondered for a long time whether the primary/main hand weapon had to have the Nick property or whether the weapon for the Light Property extra attack had to have the Nick property. But figuring out Hew of the Great Weapon Master feat or how the Cleave Mastery Property works is very straight-forward. You hit one creature and if another creature stands within 5 feet of the first, you can roll to hit that one as well if it's within your reach and for the damage, you don't add the ability modifier, but other modifiers like rage bonus and other damage riders still apply. I just wanted to see if I can - because I never had to - but I can't even explain it without repeating 80% of what the PHB says. Maybe I'd illustrate it on a battlemap if necessary.

I understand that not everyone sees it the way I see it, but I've been operating this way for years and I can't remember the last time when I didn't have at least one session that week. It must have been years. In fact, in the past few months, I had to turn down two invitations because between the campaigns I'm already playing and prepping my own, I just don't have the time for more at this point. At some point, the personalities of my characters even start to blur to the point that I actually had to read up on my own backstory one time to remember how I designed the guy.

So, it's working for me and personally, if I had to choose, I'd rather not play at all than waste my time. But overall, it works. My wife was pretty new to it a few years back and she read up on her stuff, started with easy classes, and slowly worked her way up to spellcasters and right now, we again have a new player at the table, but she read her stuff, listened to suggestions, and is now kicking butt and has a blast every week. I don't see that changing anytime soon.

Its mire like do you add your proficiency bonus to a hew attack via GwM feat.

 

[Ancoulainn]

Its mire like do you add your proficiency bonus to a hew attack via GwM feat.

Heavy Weapon Mastery. "When you hit a creature with a weapon that has the Heavy property as part of the Attack action on your turn...."

Hew. "...make one attack with the same weapon as a Bonus Action"

Chapter 1. Actions - "When you do something other than moving or communicating, you typically take an action. The Action table lists the game’s main actions, ..."

Attack - "Attack with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike"

Chapter 1. Bonus Action - "Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action. ... You can take a Bonus Action only when a special ability, a spell, or another feature of the game states that you can do something as a Bonus Action. You otherwise don’t have a Bonus Action to take."

This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes max. But quite frankly, by the time they get to level 4 and take their first feat, they should know the difference between an action and a bonus action just from playing the game, even if they never opened the book.

Actually, the only time I had to explain it was when 5.24e was fresh out and all I said was "It's added only for attacks with the attack action, not bonus action attacks." And I think that wasn't even an explanation or during the session, but when we discussed changes in 5.24e and we listed what changes we found good or silly and neither of us could come up with a good reason why GWM shouldn't apply to Opportunity Attacks or its own Bonus Action Attack. And especially with how spotty Beyond is at times, it only makes things unnecessarily complicated for people who don't use the old pen-and-paper approach.

Some also mentioned that they liked the old GWM better because - even though the new one is mathematically better against targets with higher AC - the old risk-reward approach was more to their liking. They felt that especially on a Barbarian, it would feel more rewarding. I remember, we disagreed on the new Brutal Strike mechanic. I found it anti-synergistic, especially when coupled with Toppled which the World Tree Barbarian gets built in at level 10, but they liked it and found it would make up for what they lost on GWM. Barbarian players are a special bunch, aren't they? Can't fault them for that! "Go big or go home!"

 

[ECMO3]

So, it either eats up your action every turn to take out one single target or it's entirely useless..

Yeah, with no concentration, no chance for a save at will as many times a day as you want to do it. It is very powerful in play

Nowhere near Arcane Abeyance! It's a free up cast. Nothing more

Split Enchantment is not a free upcast It targets two creatues. On some spells that is an upcast, on most, including the better ones, it is not. Dominate Person//Monster, R. Psychic Lance, Ottos Dance, Power Word Stun, Power Word Kill, Befudlement, Suggestion, Dissonant Whispers. You can target two creatures with all of these but you don't do that on an upcast. Moreover you can do it over and over again in a single day. Take a look at the spells above; I could use it with almost all of them in the SAME day and use it on most of them multiple times that day.

Finally on the spells it is an upcast, being able to target two creatures without upcasting is a big deal when you are talking about higher level spells. I can cast a 5th level hold monster and target 2 creatures, and while that is not as good as the examples above, that is still a heck of a bargain compared to a 6th level spell to do the same thing.

I would say Arcane Abeyance is generally less powerful in play. There are some cases where a party designed to leverage it would be better, and it offers some flexibility that is situationally powerful (the cleric has burned through a lot of slots with healing but you haven't. It is limited uses, limited duration, you are still using the slot, the player casting it is still using their action and that really limits the ceiling for this ability. If you use a low level spell, the player yyou give it to probably has a better action. If you use a high level spell you give up the ability to use that slot on a different spell better for the situation and take the risk of losing it completely.

Arcane Abeyance, is most powerful when you know exactly what high level spell you will need to use ahead of time and you know that will happen in an hour. I just don't find that this happens very often

.

Must have not known how to play them because they are leagues better. It's the one thing even Treantmonk and I agree on.

I've seen both in play to high level.

Did they use Arcane Abeyance to bind Summon Dragon into the bead, given it to a party member, preferably a Fighter or Artificer,

Close, they actually gave Summon Fiend to a Fighter and he ended up not using it at all because he was 18th level and wanted to make 7 attacks instead, and TBH that was probably more powerful.

or their familiar, then cast Summon Dragon

A familiar with around 2hps concentrating on Summon Dragon? I've never seen that, but it would be a waste of a spell slot in most of the games I play as a familiar rarely lasts a difficult fight when there is no reason to target it.

Against an easy foe that you don't need the Dragon for anyway? Sure it would be effective.

Have they used Telekinesis to burn through legendary resistances and then forced a fail to virtually incapacitate?

This uses 3 5th level slots and a 6th level slots and only works if he actually fails 4 saves in a row. This is not powerful at all, especially since you have to know you will be using them for this particular spell ahead of time and the bad guy would need an exceptionally bad Strength saving throw to have a reasonable chance of it landing. Also it doesn't Incapacitate, it merely Restrains and enemies with a poor strength who are likely to fail are generally are still going to be able to hammer the party while Restrained in the air.

You don't beat an enemy with Legendaries by making him use Legendaries, you beat him by bypassing saves all together!

Instead of all that I could truely incapacitate an enemy with Selune's Viper on a single successful attack roll with no save and no concentration using a single 3rd level spell slot! This is also real incapacitation, where the enemy can't take actions, not just Restrained. Heck Otto's Dance will make him Dance in place for a round on a successful save on a single 6th level slot and if I am an enchantment Wizard I can target one of his minions as well!

Give me my Goblin Enchantment Wizard, with a Bonus Action Hide and Selune's Viper against your party of bead throwers and a Wizard and I bet I incapacitate the big bad first .... by that I mean I think I get a hit, probably with advantage, faster than you get 4 failed saves most of the time even with you burning many more slots, more at will abilities and the actions for 4 different PCs.

It can be useful, don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is weak but it is not as powerful in play as you are making out considering all the options available.

 

[Zardnaar]

Heavy Weapon Mastery. "When you hit a creature with a weapon that has the Heavy property as part of the Attack action on your turn...."

Hew. "...make one attack with the same weapon as a Bonus Action"

Chapter 1. Actions - "When you do something other than moving or communicating, you typically take an action. The Action table lists the game’s main actions, ..."

Attack - "Attack with a weapon or an Unarmed Strike"

Chapter 1. Bonus Action - "Various class features, spells, and other abilities let you take an additional action on your turn called a Bonus Action. ... You can take a Bonus Action only when a special ability, a spell, or another feature of the game states that you can do something as a Bonus Action. You otherwise don’t have a Bonus Action to take."

This shouldn't take more than 5 minutes max. But quite frankly, by the time they get to level 4 and take their first feat, they should know the difference between an action and a bonus action just from playing the game, even if they never opened the book.

Actually, the only time I had to explain it was when 5.24e was fresh out and all I said was "It's added only for attacks with the attack action, not bonus action attacks." And I think that wasn't even an explanation or during the session, but when we discussed changes in 5.24e and we listed what changes we found good or silly and neither of us could come up with a good reason why GWM shouldn't apply to Opportunity Attacks or its own Bonus Action Attack. And especially with how spotty Beyond is at times, it only makes things unnecessarily complicated for people who don't use the old pen-and-paper approach.

Some also mentioned that they liked the old GWM better because - even though the new one is mathematically better against targets with higher AC - the old risk-reward approach was more to their liking. They felt that especially on a Barbarian, it would feel more rewarding. I remember, we disagreed on the new Brutal Strike mechanic. I found it anti-synergistic, especially when coupled with Toppled which the World Tree Barbarian gets built in at level 10, but they liked it and found it would make up for what they lost on GWM. Barbarian players are a special bunch, aren't they? Can't fault them for that! "Go big or go home!"

Oops may have been cleave

 

[Ancoulainn]

Yeah, with no concentration, no chance for a save at will as many times a day as you want to do it. It is very powerful in play

Can't agree with that. First of all, you're a sitting duck and most likely get slaughtered. Second of all, with those actions, you could cast a control spell like Wall of Force, drop a Greater Demon behind the enemies, control a group of enemies with Hypnotic Pattern, debuff an entire group with Synaptic Static, just kill that guy, or do a lot of other things that have a much bigger impact.

Split Enchantment is not a free upcast It targets two creatues. On some spells that is an upcast, on most, including the better ones, it is not. Dominate Person//Monster, R. Psychic Lance, Ottos Dance, Power Word Stun, Power Word Kill, Befudlement, Suggestion, Dissonant Whispers. You can target two creatures with all of these but you don't do that on an upcast. Moreover you can do it over and over again in a single day. Take a look at the spells above; I could use it with almost all of them in the SAME day and use it on most of them multiple times that day.

Finally on the spells it is an upcast, being able to target two creatures without upcasting is a big deal when you are talking about higher level spells. I can cast a 5th level hold monster and target 2 creatures, and while that is not as good as the examples above, that is still a heck of a bargain compared to a 6th level spell to do the same thing.

But tell me, you and your buddies are level 12 and you're fighting a Death Knight CR 17 in a deadly encounter. How are you going use the Enchantment Wizard's features to help your party get out ahead? Or you're playing Eve of Ruin and are 17th level and all that stands between you and the next part of the Rod of Seven Pieces is the CR 23 Tiefling Bard Windfall. How are these features going to help you win the fight? Because those are the fights where it matters. One has Magic Resistance and a Wisdom save of +9, the other immunity to the charmed condition; and there's only one target. Looks to me like they're just a base class Wizard now. Selune's Viper would also only work against Windfall, due to the Immunity to the Poisoned Condition of the Death Knight, but she has an Initiative of +14 and can hit everything within 30 feet with her bonus action for a DC 23 Con save and a stun upon fail.

And those aren't outliers because high Wisdom saves and immunity to charmed are quite frequent at higher levels and then you often have legendary resistances on top at least for the boss fights.

I would say Arcane Abeyance is generally less powerful in play.

It's generally considered the most powerful feature in the game by the likes of D4, Treantmonk, Dungeon Dudes, Pack Tactics, and others. But you don't have to agree with that.

There are some cases where a party designed to leverage it would be better, and it offers some flexibility that is situationally powerful (the cleric has burned through a lot of slots with healing but you haven't. It is limited uses, limited duration, you are still using the slot, the player casting it is still using their action and that really limits the ceiling for this ability.

You can give it to your familiar and let them cast it.

If you use a low level spell, the player yyou give it to probably has a better action. If you use a high level spell you give up the ability to use that slot on a different spell better for the situation and take the risk of losing it completely.

It effectively lets you have an additional 4th level spell active at the same time without being limited to a particular school of magic. I know, I said 5th level spell previously and I apologize for the error. I confused myself by not having my glasses on. So, Summon Dragon is out, but it still allows a Battlemaster Fighter to have Summon Minor Elementals active, if they're interested in that. Or have the familiar or whomever concentrate on Summon Aberration or the like.

Arcane Abeyance, is most powerful when you know exactly what high level spell you will need to use ahead of time and you know that will happen in an hour. I just don't find that this happens very often

I can't tell why. Since using Arcane Abeyance takes the casting time of the spell, hence in most cases an action, you can do it right before combat. If you used your Wizard spells wisely and scouted ahead with Arcane Eye, Scrying, and other divination spells, you know what's coming, unless your party doesn't do that sort of thing. But if you know what's coming, you can use the Study Action and find out what these enemies are about and maybe learn their resistances, immunities, and other useful things.

I've seen both in play to high level.

Close, they actually gave Summon Fiend to a Fighter and he ended up not using it at all because he was 18th level and wanted to make 7 attacks instead, and TBH that was probably more powerful.

Summon Fiend is a 6th level spell and Arcane Abeyance only works for spells up to 4th level. You mean maybe Summon Greater Demon?

And 7 Attacks means Polearm Master with Action Surge because basic Great Weapon Fighting would be 6 with Action Surge, unless there's a crit, and Dual Wielding with Nick would be 8 with Action Surge. If so, that was a bad choice unless the encounter ended in two rounds, which would mean it was easy, because the alternative would have been 4 attacks and casting the spell and even at that level, a Barlgura adds 85 hp to the body count and 4 attacks per round, close to what the Fighter would add if they action-surged every round and at level 18, they can only do that twice.

Sorry, but already the math just doesn't add up in your favor. I could do a detailed list of which choice would lead to higher damage against enemies of various ACs with calculated hit chances and respective averages, but we're both experienced enough to ballpark that already without, right?

A familiar with around 2hps concentrating on Summon Dragon? I've never seen that, but it would be a waste of a spell slot in most of the games I play as a familiar rarely lasts a difficult fight when there is no reason to target it.

Why? There is no range requirement to maintain a summon. The familiar can cast the spell and then fly away, hide behind total cover, or otherwise make itself untouchable. Most dangerous abilities have a maximum range of about 120 feet and you can keep the familiar out of that reach, especially if they can fly and the enemy can not. They just need to remain in shouting range and if a clear, loud voice can be heard from 600 feet, 150 feet distance also works for a familiar. The biggest issue here is that it requires a verbal command, so if your DM is strict and requires the familiar to issue the commands, this doesn't work for summoning spells.

Against an easy foe that you don't need the Dragon for anyway? Sure it would be effective.

I don't do easy combat. No encounter is ever under deadly. As my players say, "If we can't lose, there's no point in having the encounter. You might as well narrate it and get it over with." They're a waste of time to us.

Using 3 5th level slots and a 6th level slot to have party members burn through an enemies LR and then stick one of them is not that powerful, especially since you have to know you will be using them for this particular spell ahead of time.

Of course not, but that's also not the actual situation. You'd use these kinds of spell slots in deadly encounters because otherwise, you're not going to make it out alive.

Instead of all that I could incapacitate an enemy with Selune's Viper on a single successful attack roll with no save, I could do it against every enemy I face for up to an entire hour with no concentration on a single 3rd level spell slot!

But only one at a time since it requires the Magic Action to use it. And it works only against targets that aren't immune to the poisoned condition which is very common. Against all others, yeah, it's good.

Give me my Goblin Enchantment Wizard, with a Bonus Action Hide and Selune's Viper against your party of bead throwers and a Wizard and I bet I incapacitate the big bad first ....

That Bonus Action Hide helps little when the enemy has Blindsight, True Sight, and/or a high Passive Perception. They see you anyway, especially if you want to be within 50 feet and Initiative Bonuses start to creep up after CR 10 very fast, so they most likely hit you before you hit them. I mean, a Rogue with Reliable Talent and Expertise could probably get away with it, but otherwise, you're probably seen.

by that I mean I think I get a hit, probably with advantage, faster than you get 4 failed saves most of the time even with you burning many more slots, more at will abilities and the actions for 4 different PCs.

It can be useful, don't get me wrong, I am not saying it is weak but it is not as powerful in play as you are making out considering all the options available.

At level 10, with a party of 4, your major combat will most likely be against a CR 15 creature, so a Vampire Umbral Lord with Legendary Resistance, Legendary Actions, an Initiative of +14, spells like Command and Hunger of Hadar, and a Bonus Action Sanguine Drain, an Adult Green Dragon with a 60 feet cone weapon and 60 feet Blindsight and a Passive Perception of 22, meaning they see you unless you're behind full cover, a Mummy Lord with 60 feet True Sight, Legendary Actions and Resistances, and Dreadful Glare, or a Purple Worm who burrows under after their turn and probably grapples and swallows the weakest party member - the Wizard - on their first turn. Two of them are immune to the poisoned condition, two are immune to the charmed condition, and one is immune to the paralyzed condition.

Against those, you could have had two Elementals, Constructs, or Aberrations that can exploit the Mummy Lord's Vulnerability to Fire in case of the Fire Elemental, could break concentration on Hunger of Hadar, try to grapple the Purple Worm when it comes up (any creature can grapple under the 5.24e rules), or chase the dragon with their fly speed in case of Beholderkin and Air Elemental. And because of careful scouting with your Divination spells, you'd know what to expect.

With your approach, as a DM, I'd be nervous about a TPK and those are barely deadly encounters for that party of 4 level 10 characters. For an optimized party, I'd probably add some lair actions to not make it too easy for them because an Chronurgy Wizard, a Devotion Paladin, a Light Cleric, and an Elemental Monk make BarBQ out of any of them in less than 4 rounds otherwise. I've had deadly encounters like this where we shut down the enemy so well, we didn't even lose a single HP. Like that one time, we were three level 6 characters against a Cloud Giant: an Elemental Monk, a Divination Wizard, and a Draconic Sorcerer. Giant didn't even get a turn for the first three rounds and that was before Selune's Viper was a thing. With Selune's Viper, that encounter would be trivial today.

But if you are into this Goblin-Hide-thing, I suggest a Goblin Conjurer, Necromancer, or Illusionist. Grab the Telepathic feat, so you can issue your verbal commands silently, and then hide during combat behind full cover out of range of those AoEeffects, Blindsight, and Truesight and issue your commands without ever being seen. Another neat approach is any Warlock with Gaze of Two Minds and Pact of the Chain. Grab an Imp, let him go invisible, and then use Gaze of Two Minds and keep it up. All you need to do is stay within 60 feet of the Imp and you can cast spells as if your were in their space. And because you are casting the spell as if you were in his space and not the Imp, he never turns visible in the process because that only happens if the Imp makes an attack roll, deals damage, or casts a spell which they don't. And since maintaining Gaze of Two Minds only requires a bonus action, you can cast any spell and Eldritch Blast (with Advantage).

But I think we have had this exchange long enough and there's really not much to add. You clearly stated your opinion and I mine and I don't think we're getting any further. I leave the last say to you.