D&D (2024) Not loving weapon mastery with beginners

[ezo]

I'm not arguing that.

Then precisely what are you doing?

Making something easier one way, and something else more complex in another way, doesn't necessarily balance complexity out as a whole. Which seems to be the thrust of your post?

Like, "Weapon masteries might be slowing your game down and adding complexity, but thanks to these other things the game sould be faster and easier. So overall don't sweat it"??

If you aren't saying something like that, what was the purpose of the post? I mean, I didn't see anyone arguing that the game isn't easier in some ways even if harder in others? Maybe it is something I'm blocked against?

 

[Zardnaar]

We've moved on to designing for nerd males who gatekeep through treating newbies like they can't handle anything but the most simple options.

Not what anyone said at all. It's another addition to the game on top of feats not bring optional.

Objectively it's more complicated. Objectively it's power creep.

Subjective if one likes it or not.

 

[Vaalingrade]

Still trying to figure out how 'if one likes it or not' is relevant to any of this conversation when it keeps being forcibly inserted for no rhyme or reason.

 

[Zardnaar]

Still trying to figure out how 'if one likes it or not' is relevant to any of this conversation when it keeps being forcibly inserted for no rhyme or reason.

It's sort of the point of the thread.

Not everyone loves the new changes. It's not hard for me to figure out. But I've been doing this for 30 years and own all the editions.

 

[Horwath]

Not what anyone said at all. It's another addition to the game on top of feats not bring optional.

you can still cut down on feats available to all or just some players that you think it's too complicated.

Objectively it's more complicated.

true, but manageable

Objectively it's power creep.

for some. not for paladin.

Subjective if one likes it or not.

as it is with all things...


but I see this "complexity" with feats as a benefit. if you can call it complexity.

you can still use only +2 or +1/+1 ASI and give +1 ASI instead of origin feat.
or give +1 ASI for every 2 instances of weapon mastery given.

now you have simple for anyone who wants it simple and complex for anyone that wants complex.

 

[ECMO3]

for some. not for paladin.

I don't know about that. Spells at level 1 is a pretty big boost, on top of that many of their spells themselves were boosted (in particular Wrathful Smite).

The Paladin ability to Divine Smite and spam damage was reduced, but IME that was a relatively weak way to play a Paladin. It was situationally effective and nice to have available (and now it isn't), but the spells are where the real power of the class is and they are substantially better now.

In that respect I think the power of the Paladin was increased. Not as much as some other classes, but still increased.

 

[abirdcall]

I just think the overall complexity has gone up but the needless complexity has been reduced significantly. So the design has improved, but who it is designed well for has shifted a bit.

 

[Valetudo]

I think the pally is a better tank and support Frontline now. 2014 is kinda all about nova builds for alot of players.

 

[Horwath]

I don't know about that. Spells at level 1 is a pretty big boost, on top of that many of their spells themselves were boosted (in particular Wrathful Smite).

The Paladin ability to Divine Smite and spam damage was reduced, but IME that was a relatively weak way to play a Paladin. It was situationally effective and nice to have available (and now it isn't), but the spells are where the real power of the class is and they are substantially better now.

In that respect I think the power of the Paladin was increased. Not as much as some other classes, but still increased.

I agree with the spamming of DS was not optimal outside 5MWD, but it was a strong option when you needed it.

And nerf to that was required, but the Bonus action inclusion in it was not, and OFC making Divine Smite a spell was a change that no one asked for and most certain was not needed.

All it was required was:
Once on YOUR turn after you hit with (melee) attack you can...

 

[Zardnaar]

I agree with the spamming of DS was not optimal outside 5MWD, but it was a strong option when you needed it.

And nerf to that was required, but the Bonus action inclusion in it was not, and OFC making Divine Smite a spell was a change that no one asked for and most certain was not needed.

All it was required was:
Once on YOUR turn after you hit with (melee) attack you can...

That's what I use in my homebrew.