Not so Epic Feats

[Rystil Arden]

Didn't they get an errata / update thingy when 3.5e came out? I thought they did... could be wrong, though.

Anyway, IMHO the Epic rules could use MORE of an update than they've gotten so far. Coolness should be added in post-haste. (Honestly, the whole Epic system needs an overhaul... why do you get LESS cool stuff each level?)

Cheers, -- N

Very very few feats were reprinted in 3.5, with minor epic sections appearing in the DMG and other books. Not even close to a satisfactory revision, though.

 

[IanB]

Didn't they get an errata / update thingy when 3.5e came out? I thought they did... could be wrong, though.

Anyway, IMHO the Epic rules could use MORE of an update than they've gotten so far. Coolness should be added in post-haste. (Honestly, the whole Epic system needs an overhaul... why do you get LESS cool stuff each level?)

Cheers, -- N

They've been updated in a piecemeal fashion in places - some in the DMG, some in the complete books, some in Draconomicon, etc. I want to say the conversion guide had a few changes to them as well.

 

[TheCrazyMuffinMan]

Combat Archery is iffy. It doesn't sound like much, but then again there may be some game-breaking factor to being able to fire a bow without getting AoO'd.

Dexterous ~ should be nonepic, and require Dex 15+, slippery mind and Ref save +10

Dire Charge should be high normal level, but epic is pushing it. Change it to require Str 13+, Combat Reflexes, Run and Improved Init.

I'm not so sure about Ignore Material Components. It's probably worth Epic status.

 

[Rystil Arden]

Combat Archery is iffy. It doesn't sound like much, but then again there may be some game-breaking factor to being able to fire a bow without getting AoO'd.

Dexterous ~ should be nonepic, and require Dex 15+, slippery mind and Ref save +10

Dire Charge should be high normal level, but epic is pushing it. Change it to require Str 13+, Combat Reflexes, Run and Improved Init.

I'm not so sure about Ignore Material Components. It's probably worth Epic status.

Ignore Material Components is incredibly strong--almost a must-have for Clerics at least. As for Dire Charge, it is already a non-epic feat in Races of the Wild, at least for a small subset of characters--it's called Catfolk Pounce.

 

[UltimaGabe]

From the thread on the Mage Slayer feat, what are the top 5 epic feats do you consider not so epic.

Allow me to choose six, if you don't mind.

1. Great Strength.
2. Great Dexterity.
3. Great Constitution.
4. Great Intelligence.
5. Great Wisdom.
6. Great Charisma.

All of them are practically worthless as non-epic feats, and even moreso as epic feats. What Epic character will spend one of their hard-earned feats to get a measly +1 to an ability score?

 

[TheCrazyMuffinMan]

Allow me to choose six, if you don't mind.

1. Great Strength.
2. Great Dexterity.
3. Great Constitution.
4. Great Intelligence.
5. Great Wisdom.
6. Great Charisma.

All of them are practically worthless as non-epic feats, and even moreso as epic feats. What Epic character will spend one of their hard-earned feats to get a measly +1 to an ability score?

They'd probably be good as post-6th feats in E6. As much as I want to agree with the idea, a level 20 character who uses all their normal opportunities (1st level (2x for humans), every 3rd..., every 4th...) to gain an attribute point will gain 12 points total (13 if Human). I wonder if there's any kind of prerequisite that can be added to the great [attribute] feat if it was to become nonepic. Perhaps (Ability score must be no greater than your character level + 10 after taking the feat)?

Attribute 18, 10, 14, 20

1 --, 11, --, --
3 --, 12, --, --
4 19, 13, 15 ,21
6 --, 14, 16, --
8 20, 15, 17, 22
9 --, 16, 18, --
12A 21, 17, 19, 23
12B 22, 18, 20, --
15 23, 19, 21, 24
16 24, 20, 22, 25
18 25, 21, 23, 26
20 26, 22, 24, 27

If your attribute is 18, the prerequisite cuts the gain potential by 4 points (5 if human). If it is say, 14, the gain potential is 2 less. If it's 10 (11 for humans) or less, gain progression is unhindered. The highest that a powered approach to this feat would take someone is 26 (27 for any race that grants a bonus to the optimized attribute), requiring 8 of the 12 (13) increase opportunities on the way to 20th. Normally, it would be 31 (33 for races with bonuses).

If this is still too high even for a L20 PC, the limit could be reduced to (level + 5), so only REALLY bad ability scores can be increased by Great ~ from the start.

Attribute
18, 10, 14, 20 (Tighter Restriction)

1 --, --, --, --
3 --, --, --, --
4 19, 13, 15 ,21
6 --, --, --, --
8 20, 14, 16, 22
9 --, --, --, --
12A 21, 15, 17, 23
12B --, 16, 18*, --
15 --, 17, 19, --
16 22, 18, 20, 24
18 23, 19, 22, --
20 24, 20, 23, 25

The tighter restriction would peak this sort of optimization at 25, and is likely preferred. Creatures with a 20 to start couldn't do a thing to their 20'd stat.

*- If I remember right, you can take a feat before you take an ability score.

A and B are the feat and the normal ability score bonus (in the desired order)

 

[Rystil Arden]

Allow me to choose six, if you don't mind.

1. Great Strength.
2. Great Dexterity.
3. Great Constitution.
4. Great Intelligence.
5. Great Wisdom.
6. Great Charisma.

All of them are practically worthless as non-epic feats, and even moreso as epic feats. What Epic character will spend one of their hard-earned feats to get a measly +1 to an ability score?

Are you kidding? Anyone who gets any sort of Spell Focus, which grants +1 to DCs for one school only, for two schools (I've seen it) is automatically better served with Great <Your Casting Stat Here> twice. Great <Your Casting Stat Here> is extremely useful to casters, particularly if they keep stacking it. Additionally, Great Strength is of great use to big weapon wielders, who pick up +1 to hit, +1.5 to damage, +1 to all Strength-based skills, +1 to Grapple etc from every two purchases (compare to Weapon Focus + Weapon Specialisation). Great Dexterity is a huge bargain for the dodgy types. Two feats give you +1 to AC, +1 to hit with ranged weapons / finesse, +1 to Init, +1 to Reflex saves, +1 to Dex skills.

The only stinker of the lot is Great Constitution, which just isn't worth it to spend two feats to get Improved Toughness, +1 to Fort saves, Con checks, and Concentration checks. You might as well just buy Great Fortitude and Improved Toughness with those two slots.