Notes from Green Ronin seminar

[Nellisir]

I can understand that 3.5 may have split the market, but I don't think the answer is to split it further. There is no guarentee that 4e will be OGL, but that doesn't affect anything, since the current license will always be available. "We're changing the system because we don't want to be left behind when the system changes" doesn't strike me as useful in the long run.

I think some publishers are devising their own systems simply to explore different options, or switch some rules they don't like for rules that suit their particular genre better -- AE and IH in the first case; Conan, Black Company, & Thieves World in the second.

The time for them to change and grow is exactly now, when everything is relatively calm and stable. They DON'T want to be competing with 4e D&D when they launch their new line - they'd be up against the PH, the DMG, and the MM for a gamer's dollar. Taking on Heros of Battle is a much, much, much better bet. (I think WotC is making a mistake with all their generic supplements, but that's just me).

I expect to see at least one print publisher bring out a D&D 3.5 clone to "fill the void" when WotC announces 4e, and Green Ronin could very well be positioning True20 as the "generic fantasy rule system" to shoot for a larger share of the market after 4e -- I'd expect the Troll Lords, with Castles & Crusades, to be looking the same way.

Cheers
Nell.

 

[Turjan]

Because I can use D20 stuff a lot easier than OGL stuff that is significantly different. Also a book of alternate rules such as Unearthed Arcana is a lot more useful to me than an alternate PHB full of minor rules, many of which I can't pull out without figuring out where they impact other part's of the game. By making a supplement True20, they remove me from their market.

Well, I hoped my question already presupposed what your answer now says. I was aware of the fact that you won't use stuff that isn't directly usable in your D&D game, but my question was: why does this bother you? If you are not part of their market, that's their problem, not yours.

Btw, Green Ronin are aware of this general fact. If you read the notes from that seminar, you will notice that they intend to release 'Freeport 3.5' with a timeline shifted by 5 years. That's not 'Freeport True20', a possibility they were pondering before. They also know where the bulk of their customers are. Actually, they asked their fans, and the answer was clear . At the moment, True20 is no true second supporting leg for them.

 

[The Lost Muse]

I for one am glad that Green Ronin is preparing for the eventuality that Wizards of the Coast will release a fourth edition, and that that fourth edition will not be Open Content. I have gotten so much use out of each of the products I have purchased from them, and only wish I could have bought more.

Tim

 

[Abulia]

Which is probably their Master Plan all along.

1. Publish good d20 products until you are recognized and build up your company's cred.

2. Then offer good standalone game products without the d20 labels.

Savvy?

I think you're mistaking a 3-5 year business plan and "master strategy" with being a small publisher (in relationship to Wizards/WW) and being nimble to the market trends.

It wasn't that long ago AEG was playing with licensed products (Farscape, Stargate) and dual-statting books (d20/Roll-and-Keep) and have adjusted their strategy.

Short answer: In hindsight, savvy yes. Was this their plan 3-5 years ago? Highly unlikely.

 

[Ranger REG]

I think you're mistaking a 3-5 year business plan and "master strategy" with being a small publisher (in relationship to Wizards/WW) and being nimble to the market trends.

It wasn't that long ago AEG was playing with licensed products (Farscape, Stargate) and dual-statting books (d20/Roll-and-Keep) and have adjusted their strategy.

Short answer: In hindsight, savvy yes. Was this their plan 3-5 years ago? Highly unlikely.

I don't know if I count AEG as a "small" publisher. They've been around for some time (longer than Green Ronin and Mongoose), doing well with their L5R and 7th Sea games. I think like Chaosium, they needed fast money and exposure to their products.

For Chaosium, they didn't get lucky and drop out of the d20 market.

For AEG, Spycraft took off now dropping the d20 label, and Rokugan d20 was dropped in favor of L5R with their in-house Roll-n-Keep System. Heck, they no longer publish new d20 "one-word" fantasy supplements.

 

[Abulia]

I don't know if I count AEG as a "small" publisher. They've been around for some time (longer than Green Ronin and Mongoose), doing well with their L5R and 7th Sea games. I think like Chaosium, they needed fast money and exposure to their products.

Thank you for making my point.

It wasn't a long-term strategy or plan, it's adjusting to market trends. "D20? Let's jump on board!" Cue slew of D20 products. Sales down? "Back to Roll-and-Keep. Cancel these subpar lines."

I'm not saying this is bad, mind you. This is a luxury that some companies can't do. All I'm saying is that this wasn't part of some clever savvy plan on their part (IMO).

 

[JoeGKushner]

Because I can use D20 stuff a lot easier than OGL stuff that is significantly different. Also a book of alternate rules such as Unearthed Arcana is a lot more useful to me than an alternate PHB full of minor rules, many of which I can't pull out without figuring out where they impact other part's of the game. By making a supplement True20, they remove me from their market.

But on the other hand, d20 in and of itself is not a mark of standard compatibility. Frobidden Kingdoms, Adventure, Aberrant, Trinity, Slaine and Judge Dread are all d20. Talislanta d20 is well, d20 and I guarantee you if you allow that book in campaign play, outside of hardcore "role" players, everyone else will be from that book since there are no LAs or ECL adjustments.

 

[JoeGKushner]

I think some publishers are devising their own systems simply to explore different options, or switch some rules they don't like for rules that suit their particular genre better -- AE and IH in the first case; Conan, Black Company, & Thieves World in the second.

Cheers
Nell.

Just for the record, Black Company and Thieves World are still d20 products and still require the Player's Handbook to use as they don't have character creation rules in 'em. AE, IH and Conan, not to mention World of Warcraft, are OGL and AE and WoW are pretty standard D&D compatible while Conan and IH look like they'd take a lot of effort to translate.

 

[Buttercup]

I for one am glad that Green Ronin is preparing for the eventuality that Wizards of the Coast will release a fourth edition, and that that fourth edition will not be Open Content.

You speak for me. I'm pinning my hopes for the future on Green Ronin. I won't be buying 4e stuff, open or not. Heck, I've nearly stopped buying WotC stuff now.

 

[TerraDave]

Whizbang

I don't think they could put an "expiration date" on the OGL.

If I make an OGL product, it has to have some open content, that some other person can use. Thanks to the license, there is now tons of open content in other books (especially GR's). I don't think WotC could say, "material in Green Ronin books is open up until 4th ed is released, then it is closed".

They could take down the SRD. They did that with the 3rd edition one. But by that point all the stuff in 3rd edition was open, and much of it was incorporated in other products.

Make sense?