November and Beyond

[Nightfall]

Well still I think it might be something about running the same type of game. (Even though both Necromancer Games and Goodman Games mods are different from each other to not feel like they are ripping each other off.) But you know maybe you want to have some scourging hordes of goblins... Why? I don't know but that's your problem.

 

[Shemeska]

Well, apparently they are dismissing the Twin Law Serpent myth in favor for the "fallen from heaven" one. That's good. Here's hoping the rest is as good.
Jhg

I don't really know enough yet to have a firm opinion on the matter. While it seems that they're going for 'Asmo as fallen celestial', it risks being too close to Baalzebul's thing potentially, and potentially too much straight up association with Judeo-Xtian mythology, but the stress on the Blood War and the Law/Chaos axis puts my mind at rest over any chance of them stressing a Good/Evil axis too much. But it certainly puts a few nails in the coffin of the idea of Asmodeus being one of the original beings of Baator.

If they have him being a fallen Archon, ok, a bit expected, but ok. If a fallen Aasimon, Asmo is considerably younger than anyone previously expected. Maybe we'll see something completely unexpected, like Asmo being a fallen Eladrin prince who rejected both Chaos and Good.

I'm still itching to see how the Ancient Baatorians are handled, maybe some lore on the origins of Levistus and Dispater, and of course any tip of the hat to the Baernaloth myth w/ regards to the original inhabitants of the plane.

 

[Nightfall]

Well RJ did hint that the Hag Countess issue would be handled. I'm hopeful for that.

I do like your idea that "Ozzy" might be a fallen former Eladrin. Would make this fights with the Eladrins way more interesting, especially if he could overcome his disgust with chaos and have him and Kochiskiste(sp) fight to undo their power.

 

[joshhg]

I don't really know enough yet to have a firm opinion on the matter. While it seems that they're going for 'Asmo as fallen celestial', it risks being too close to Baalzebul's thing potentially, and potentially too much straight up association with Judeo-Xtian mythology, but the stress on the Blood War and the Law/Chaos axis puts my mind at rest over any chance of them stressing a Good/Evil axis too much. But it certainly puts a few nails in the coffin of the idea of Asmodeus being one of the original beings of Baator.

If they have him being a fallen Archon, ok, a bit expected, but ok. If a fallen Aasimon, Asmo is considerably younger than anyone previously expected. Maybe we'll see something completely unexpected, like Asmo being a fallen Eladrin prince who rejected both Chaos and Good.

I'm still itching to see how the Ancient Baatorians are handled, maybe some lore on the origins of Levistus and Dispater, and of course any tip of the hat to the Baernaloth myth w/ regards to the original inhabitants of the plane.

Random Idea: What if he fell from the Proto-celestials during their war with the Ancient Baatorians, joined the A-B's, and the P-C's had to sacifice themselfs to stop him from leading the A-B's to take over the multiverse? So the A-B's were locked up, Asmo is trapped on the bottom layer, and so he creates devils from the left overs from the bodies of the dead A-B's and P-C's? [/end Random Idea]

Now, myself, I would like to see him as a fallen Archon, as I don't think and former paragon of CG can be the highest archtype of LE. To me, it should be a strait fall, to repersent the 'fall from grace' better. Because nothing is so wrong as something you love twisted into a abomination, something familiar, but not right.

 

[Nightfall]

*just likes the fallen Eladrin idea if only to piss off those Celestial Paragons of CG. *

 

[joshhg]

I personly would want to get back at the "man", those stuffy, stuck up, sticklers of LG.
But I've always be the one to ruffle the adminstration's feathers. (Bad pun intended)

 

[Shemeska]

Quick! Someone cast mindspider on RJ!

Random Idea: What if he fell from the Proto-celestials during their war with the Ancient Baatorians, joined the A-B's, and the P-C's had to sacifice themselfs to stop him from leading the A-B's to take over the multiverse? So the A-B's were locked up, Asmo is trapped on the bottom layer, and so he creates devils from the left overs from the bodies of the dead A-B's and P-C's? [/end Random Idea]

Depends on what proto-celestials we're talking about. We really don't know of any, just speculation that the celestials might have their own elder creators to mimic the situation with the Baernaloths and the other fiends. That might suggest a proto-Guardinal race, but then on Pelion/Mithardir in Arborea we have some slim suggestions of a proto-Eladrin race. But again, nothing solid, just lots of room to toy with ideas (which I enjoy).

We know that the Ancient Baatorians did fight the early Archons, and perhaps some of the early lawful Aasimon/Angels. So in any event the Baatezu are pretty late arrivals to that plane, and at least in what lower planar histories we have, Asmo and the other Lords of the 9 don't appear till after the Baatezu take over the plane and displace the ancients.

It's possible that Asmo was one of those celestials, who then fell to LE, but it does make him fairly young compared to some other lower planar beings like the Obyriths or Baernaloths.

Now, myself, I would like to see him as a fallen Archon, as I don't think and former paragon of CG can be the highest archtype of LE. To me, it should be a strait fall, to repersent the 'fall from grace' better. Because nothing is so wrong as something you love twisted into a abomination, something familiar, but not right.

Personally I'd have preferred him to be a lingering ancient baatorian who potentially sold out the rest of his race, or a fallen LN or LG being who was corrupted by contact with one of those same ancient baatorians.

Perhaps a younger sibling to the Maeldur et Kavurik?

 

[joshhg]

Perhaps a younger sibling to the Maeldur et Kavurik?

Are you suggesting that falling runs in the family?

Maybe there will be more suggestions of a proto-celestial race in the book.
But I'm still betting money on a fallen Archon. And a powerful, lower ranked on, based on the line we have.
Anyways, here is to hoping that the ancient baatorians make it into the book.

 

[Klaus]

That Gargantuan Blue Dragon is starting to look pretty neat!

 

[Ripzerai]

If they have him being a fallen Archon, ok, a bit expected, but ok.

That would be incredibly tedious and mundane, at this point. Fallen archons have been done to death, and turning Asmodeus into yet another one would destroy any interest I have in the character. The Twin Serpents myth is VASTLY superior, because at least it involved some creativity and made Asmodeus stand out among D&D characters. My vote would be to kill him off and replace him with a ruler with a more interesting origin story.

Making him a fallen eladrin would be unexpected and interesting enough that I would be okay with it.

Making him some sort of proto-celestial would only be good if they use the opportunity to detail the proto-celestials in an interesting way - giving them an actual distinct appearance, myth, and motives, so they're not just winged humans whose only distinguishing feature is "good." Proto-celestials who actually add something positive to the cosmology would be welcome, but my hopes are not up, despite my prior respect for the authors.

I'm still itching to see how the Ancient Baatorians are handled, maybe some lore on the origins of Levistus and Dispater

At this point I'm inclined to be pessimistic. Sorry for being such a downer, but I rather they leave those characters alone than screw them up. It's probably wrong of me to judge the whole book based on one tiny excerpt, but it seems like like they've turned sharply in the direction of embarassing cliche.

I'm not normally a pessimistic person, and I've liked the previous work of the authors of the FCII, but I've gone from "itching to see how things were handled" to dread and forboding. I hope to be proven wrong.