Now that 3rd edition has been around for almost 2 years....

[Victim]

I think it's good, not mindblowing or anything but good. I think it handles D&D well, but since it requires a new, thick as hell, rulebook to play beyond 20th level I think they could have maybe done some things different to remove that problem. I've been talking to some people about d20 star wars and most of them when asked why they like it better than the d6 version is balance. Well some games need more than just balance, like SW. From what I'm being told you can't even replicate what the Jedi do in the movies with the current rules, and level limits cause major NPC's to have stripped down abilities to make them fit withing the classes. I don't want to see most games go d20, I like variety and don't like the thought of most publishers putting out new d20 based editions of their games and abandoning the old systems. That hasn't happened with COC so there is hope. So while I have some gripes about how it handles certain aspects of D&D I think it's a strong system for fantasy gaming.

Hmm, I had written something, but it seems to have disappeared while I was typing.

If a Star Wars game portrayed the Jedi the way they are in the movies (super powerful), then who wouldn't want to play one? A Jedi could out fight pretty much anyone, is probably an incredible pilot, has tons of skills, and is probably in a position of influence and prestige. The Jedi knights are so powerful that they're the Republic doesn't even a Peacekeeper type army. A Jedi could replace just about anyone else. The movies usually show a Jedi facing off against the main villain while others deal with the lackeys. Is that situation a good foundation for a game?

I think no. Who wants to be another character's lackey?

 

[Berandor]

I think the mechanics of d20 are sound and balanced, much more so than before.
One of the great benefits is that I can choose more freely which rules to employ - especially with d20 publishers galore.

On the other hand, we also have a great many mediocre or worse products, which you can't always discern at once. But in the end, I needn't buy it, so...

Flavor-wise, I have come to somewhat dislike the traditional D&D take on magic, making it all-powerful in high levels. Also, contradictory to my opinion two years ago, I have found need for several house rules - most of them minor, though.

The main benefit however, is that most actions do have a compatible system to work with, and the many unclear situations of AD&D are truly a thing of the past. (Especially in combat and magic questions)

The main disadvantage still is the skill system, though largely improved and with added feats. D&D still is a little too combat-oriented to make me stop using White Wolf's WOD system all together.

Berandor

 

[TBoarder]

Strengths:

• The OGL and d20 licenses
• The complete modularity of the system. The way races and classes work together, multicalssing, the ease of adding new feats, prestige classes, etc.
• The general balance of the core system
• The general ease of figuring out how to accompish tasks
• The new Forgotten Realms

Weaknesses:

• Character creation takes absolutely forever. NPC stat blocks are becoming huge, deity stat blocks took up about 3/4 of Deities & Demigods.
• The way rounds are broken up into Standard Actions, Move-Equivalent Actions, Partial Actions, Full Actions, and Full Round Actions is about as intuitive as THAC0 was in 2E, perhaps even less so.
• The occasional unbalanced "sacred cows" that generally ignore the new systems, like spells with no save (Power Words, Maze, Harm, etc) or Vorpal weapons and attacks (a huge pet peeve of mine).
• Occasional vagueness in the rules. It's much improved from 2E, but we seem to be constantly running into situations where the rules don't accurately describe the effects of an action or situation. See any question to the Sage (Add to that the fact that he seems to be doing a very good job of not answering the question in his replies anymore).
• The way d20 publishers occasionally take advantage of 3E's modularity by ignoring balance when they create new feats and prestige classes. Just because it's easy to add something doesn't mean it's easy to balance it with the rest of the system.

 

[hong]

I think no. Who wants to be another character's lackey?

... which is exactly why nobody ever wants to play a cleric or bard.

(Yes, I know the cleric is buff-up hell. This shows how much people dislike playing the party medic, that the designers had to resort to bribery to make them do it.)

 

[shurai]

Truthfully I find that character creation only takes awhile if you're making a character of 5th level or above. First level characters generally write themselves, I've found.

Two nights ago, for instance, my DM needed a cleric NPC of 3rd level, so I wrote one in about ten minutes, including gear and skills and everything. What takes a long time for me is the character's concept. The rules bits go by very quickly if you know the system pretty well.

Also, I didn't know that d20 Cthulu doesn't have classes and levels. Intriguing! Unfortunately I have little interest in the horror genre of roleplaying, though.

-Shurai

 

[Ridley's Cohort]

Weaknesses:

• The way rounds are broken up into Standard Actions, Move-Equivalent Actions, Partial Actions, Full Actions, and Full Round Actions is about as intuitive as THAC0 was in 2E, perhaps even less so.
• The occasional unbalanced "sacred cows" that generally ignore the new systems, like spells with no save (Power Words, Maze, Harm, etc) or Vorpal weapons and attacks (a huge pet peeve of mine).
  
• The way d20 publishers occasionally take advantage of 3E's modularity by ignoring balance when they create new feats and prestige classes. Just because it's easy to add something doesn't mean it's easy to balance it with the rest of the system.

The actions thing is poorly explained. It works well in play once you get used to it, but it is a bear to learn.

I agree on the general point of the sacred cows. You will never get a consensus on what should be changed. My personal opinion is that several spells should be shifted or down in level. The designers really tried to avoid doing so, although the did enough fiddling to make things better.

Other people screwing around with your rules is part of the price you pay for success, I am afraid.

I think one weakness of 3e is how clerics of very different philosophies are (still) largely identical. A small smattering of a domain ability or domain spell rarely makes a noticeable difference in play. This is more true of clerics than another other class, largely because of the huge spell identical spell list every cleric gets from any god.

The division between arcane and divine spells is rather thin, especially now that so many spells cross over. I never liked it.

 

[Flexor the Mighty!]

I forgot one gripe with d20. The system is so tightly integrated it takes a lot of work to ignore or redo rules. Drop one thing and a bunch of other things are affected. It's not as easy to house rule as 1e was.

 

[mmadsen]

D20 games don't have to have classes. See, for example, Call of Cthulhu d20. Same basic engine (the d20 system) as D&D 3e, but no classes.

You can play D&D without classes too; just rule that everyone is an Expert. That is, in effect, what Call of Cthulhu does. Fortunately it works fine for most modern characters.

 

[Rinndalir]

Overall d20 & 3rd ed are both a step forward and backwards. On one hand you have the 3rd party d20 boom allowing anyone and their mamma to publish. On the other, the mechanics themselves are a big step back - classes, sacred cows, crappy inflexible spell system, "game balance" and character abilities revolving around combat, crappy skill system...3rd ed models D&D well but that's about it. General d20 is much better (Spycraft, Star Wars, Wheel of Time - which is what 3rd ed SHOULD'VE been IMO) but still married to the outdated class/level system.

 

[Corinth]

If class/level systems are so outdated, then why are they always the most successful ones on the market?