I create NPC enemy parties all the time with the DMG. They are my favorite encounters, and my PCs seem to like them a lot as well. Very fun and versatile, a great way to preview powers and classes in the game, and fairly different than most monsters (particularly in their ability to heal and adaptability).
NPC Enemy Parties in 4E
- Thread starter crash_beedo
- Start date
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Use the DMG rules, and please note that many of the examples are quite poor (often missing the level-based bonuses). This gave me a hard time actually learning the rules.
I don't understand why you would need encounter tables. You can either determine what the NPC party is like yourself, or just give it one defender, one striker, one controller and one leader.
IMO using the elites is a bad idea, as they tend to lack offense, often resulting in longer, boring combats. (Same sort of issues with solos; their offense is only a little bit better than elites, but their defenses are somewhat higher and their hit points are much higher.)
If you don't use the PH rules, the NPCs get fewer dailies (reasonable) and fewer abilities overall (making designing them quite a bit easier, and probably more balanced too).
4-6 elite monsters aren't necessarily overpowering; it depends on their levels and a bunch of other stuff, but such an encounter could easily be overpowered (for the party's level and capabilities).
crash_beedo
First Post
Let me ask you something, using the DMG NPC creation rules, are you making the NPC equivalent to a "standard" monster for XP calculation purposes? I like those rules, but it's not clear how they correlate to the monster creation rules just a page early - I'm thinking a page 187 NPC is probably just a standard monster.
Just want to agree over here - I've found that the 4E NPC rules are often overlooked and underused, but they let you easily put together NPCs that clearly have class capabilities without being too powerful for the party to face or too difficult for the DM to run.
Also note that these rules are seperate from applying class template rules found a few pages earlier, which produce elite enemies rather than standard foes.
Because it's too much work to prepare, and too much work to run. Monsters have much simpler rules for creation and running.
The class templates in the DMG give you the "role" of each class. Pick an at-will and an encounter power or two and slap them on a non-elite NPC monster with the proper role & numbers. You're done.
Jack99
Adventurer
Sorry, but no, the winner is quoted below.
Building them as monsters gives you much more creative freedom.
Wormwood
Adventurer
Precisely what I did when I had to come up with a rival adventuring party as a foil for the PCs.
Cherry picked a nice mix of PC class/monster powers (the "Rogue" got a couple of powers from the PHb and one power from the Bugbear entry in the MM---Strangle in this case).
Unfortunately, the damned PC's *talked* their way out of the confrontation instead of fighting it out. The bastards.
wingsandsword
Legend
Why would you worry if the encounter is balanced, is every single encounter in the world self-adjusting to the level of the PC's? Shouldn't the power level of what the PC's encounter be based more on what should be there? A squad of warriors going to join a crusade could be all fighter types and not a balanced party, and probably low level but seriously outnumbering the PCs. A famous wizard and his entourage may have a single very high level wizard, maybe a few lower level but still decently skilled apprentices, some low-level hireling flunkies/servants with marginal combat skill, and maybe a single cleric to tend to the wizard as a confessor/personal physician. If the PC's run across a party much larger or more skilled (higher level) than them, they probably should look more into hiding, negotiating, bribing, not antagonizing the other party, and not engaging them in combat.
Also, while I'm not exactly up on 4e design, why is it bad to use PHB PC rules for NPC adventurers because of daily powers? Prior editions of D&D had NPCs with daily powers, it was called spell slots, and most DMs I know assume that typically NPC spellcasters have a full loadout of powers unless they explicitly have a reason to be low (like had just left a battle before encountering the PCs).
Also, while I'm not exactly up on 4e design, why is it bad to use PHB PC rules for NPC adventurers because of daily powers? Prior editions of D&D had NPCs with daily powers, it was called spell slots, and most DMs I know assume that typically NPC spellcasters have a full loadout of powers unless they explicitly have a reason to be low (like had just left a battle before encountering the PCs).
(Psi)SeveredHead
Adventurer
Balance as a baseline is nice. There's nothing preventing a DM from using a higher or lower powered encounter, but they probably want to know that before they run the encounter.
And that was a problem in some games. A spellcaster would waste all their bluffs and/or simply blast out their highest level spells without worrying (much) about later encounters.
IIRC in 2e NPC mages were supposed to have 1d% of their daily spell slots available at any one time, causing me to wonder ... how exactly did you do that math? Is a 7th-level spell slot equal to a 3rd-level? Etc. (And no, I'm not 100% sure that rule existed. I only DMed 2e twice that I recall.)
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