D&D 5E (2024) NPCs, and the poverty of the core books

[TiQuinn]

I'd find a "close enough" NPC spellcaster stat block and replace its spells with Bardic ones, I guess. Give it some Bardic inspiration points to dish out to its allies.

Or if I was really desperate, I'd build a level 5 Bard PC?

And obviously you just reuse that same bard NPC rather than starting from scratch the next time you need one.

 

[Stormonu]

So what do y'all do when you need a CR 5 bard NPC?

If I can't find a stat block for one in one of the monster books I have, would probably build it from scratch. If it was in the middle of a session, I'd find the closest pre-existing match and use that, with any bard-like mods to make it feel right (like, adding Inspiration as noted earlier).

And, as @Bae'zel stated, if I needed it for a PC ally, I'd build an actual leveled PC (CR 5 is about a level 10 PC, BTW).

 

[Micah Sweet]

If I can't find a stat block for one in one of the monster books I have, would probably build it from scratch. If it was in the middle of a session, I'd find the closest pre-existing match and use that, with any bard-like mods to make it feel right (like, adding Inspiration as noted earlier).

And, as @Bae'zel stated, if I needed it for a PC ally, I'd build an actual leveled PC (CR 5 is about a level 10 PC, BTW).

At this point I'd probably use the new heroic companion rules in EN Publishing's latest supplement for A5e, Pets and Sidekicks.

 

[Stormonu]

You know what I’ve noticed?

Everyone here, and I mean absolutely naughty word everyone, seems to be a master DM or super experienced player across multiple systems or editions and crazily enough, everyone still disagrees and has different experiences. No newbies here. Everyone here runs perfect games, amirite?

So maybe bragging about how many games you’ve played, or adventures you written, or years of experience you have doesn’t really matter much at all?

I'm nowhere near perfect and always learning something. As a previous "forever DM", I've been getting a serious education of what it's like to be on the player side of the screen of late.

Still, point taken. I just don't like it being insinuated I'm a complete newb or moron for how my experiences differ from a lot of other folks around here.

 

[TiQuinn]

I'm nowhere near perfect and always learning something. As a previous "forever DM", I've been getting a serious education of what it's like to be on the player side of the screen of late.

Still, point taken. I just don't like it being insinuated I'm a complete newb or moron for how my experiences differ from a lot of other folks around here.

I didn’t want to quote anyone in particular and it wasn’t directed at you; it’s just something I think a lot of us, including myself, have been guilty of.

 

[Bae'zel]

if I needed it for a PC ally, I'd build an actual leveled PC (CR 5 is about a level 10 PC, BTW).

Really? Oops I've been doing it wrong LOL

NOTED!

Edit: any recommended reading on this? CR to PC level rough equivalency?

 

[Pedantic]

Why not? The world is wide and vast. Every NPC can have their own backstory if it's relevant.

That feels like a stronger argument for a more detailed character creation system with more variability, not less.

 

[Stormonu]

Really? Oops I've been doing it wrong LOL

NOTED!

Edit: any recommended reading on this? CR to PC level rough equivalency?

This is from Forge of Foes (which is a really good monster design book BTW). It fairly matches my play experiences, so I trust it (though I wish it tracked above 20th level PC equivalent in some way).

 

[TwoSix]

That feels like a stronger argument for a more detailed character creation system with more variability, not less.

Yes, but it's also an argument that not every aspect of what defines a character within the setting needs to be part of the player-facing character creation toolkit.

Or to approach it a different way, the DM is allowed to have as part of their toolkit the ability to define abilities that can be earned diegetically if certain narratives occur, but are not under the player's authority to choose as part of their metagame advancement.

Even more basically, the DM can treat classes and feats and other "player tech" just like magic items.

 

[Lanefan]

First, bold to assume all possible factions or cultures are available, or you would gain the features of them. For example, you can claim heritage from a Vistani tribe, but you will never gain the same prophecy or Evil Eye abilities NPC Vistani have. You can try to emulate them with spells, but you will never be one of the blood, Giomorgo.

As for your Brotherhood of Shadow PC, While you were learning how to be a Rogue/assassin (which includes abilities the brotherhood NPCs don't have) you missed out on the abilities the NPCs get.

How can I not be one of the blood when I'm one of the blood?

As for the Rogue-Assassin, the PC shouldn't get abilities the NPCs don't/can't have any more than the reverse.