D&D 5E (2024) NPCs, and the poverty of the core books

[Remathilis]

Yes, exactly. If a class exists and isn't ties to a specific species or culture (mostly seen as Cleric variants among different monster cultures), it's in theory PC-available; in practice there's some non-adventuring classes that would be extremely dull and boring to play - you sit in town while everyone else goes adventuring - but you still can if you really really want to.

Bold is emphasis. A drow can be a unique cleric of Lolth that has abilities a PC cleric wouldn't have. I have no problem extending that logic to other classes. An elf swordsman who dedicated 200 years to the art of the blade can do things a PC elf isn't able to do. The assassins of the Brotherhood of Shadow engage in foul rituals that allows them to kill with a single stroke and disappear into shadow. The Cult of the Foul Lord are warlocks who engaged in such blasphemous acts they have unlocked magic beyond the ken of most warlocks.

You want those powers? Retire your PC, join their faction, and after years of training, you too can become an NPC with their abilities. If you want to keep adventuring here and now, there is the Player's Handbook.

 

[Pedantic]

Bold is emphasis. A drow can be a unique cleric of Lolth that has abilities a PC cleric wouldn't have. I have no problem extending that logic to other classes. An elf swordsman who dedicated 200 years to the art of the blade can do things a PC elf isn't able to do. The assassins of the Brotherhood of Shadow engage in foul rituals that allows them to kill with a single stroke and disappear into shadow. The Cult of the Foul Lord are warlocks who engaged in such blasphemous acts they have unlocked magic beyond the ken of most warlocks.

You want those powers? Retire your PC, join their faction, and after years of training, you too can become an NPC with their abilities. If you want to keep adventuring here and now, there is the Player's Handbook.

This is all a question of degree right? It's not wild to have a specialized Oracle of the Moon Pool, it's pretty crazy to have a unique ability on a local sergeant of the watch.

 

[ECMO3]

It happened to me a few times when I first started playing 5e. After those few times, not so much. I learned from my mistakes.

Ok so it was a problem 10 years ago but is no longer a problem?

Also when you say "playing" do you mean as a player? If so then what you learned is not really relevant to this because we are talking about DMs creating custom monsters.

Tomato, tomahto. Both of those things require pretty much the exact same skills for the purposes of this discussion. You need the ability to look at a monster with it's AC, hit points, saves, specials, etc. and be able to accurately compare those things to the party make-up and player skill of your players.

No they don't because monsters that are not homebrew come with a CR, and while certain monsters can be more difficult for certain groups (Trolls when the party has no acid or fire), for the most part designing an encounter with off the shelf official monsters within the guidelines will result in an encounter that is not likely to cause a TPK if the players play intelligently and have average rolls. As a matter of fact, within those bounds it will almost never result in a TPK.

 

[ECMO3]

Come sit at my table, and I'll show you otherwise. I've done it at least thrice in 5E alone.

Ok I am not sure how far back you looked at this thread, so let me clarify what you are claiming here:

1. As a DM you tried to design an encounter that would be high difficulty and might kill one or more PCs but would not cause a TPK.

2. You made mistakes creating custom monsters for this encounter and they were more powerful then they should have been, overrunning the intended difficulty.

3. The encounter ended up causing a TPK because of the overtuned monster.

4. This happened at least 3 times (in how many sessions?).

Is that what you are actually saying here? If so, I would suggest you either stick to official content or post your monsters here to let the community comment and help you "balance" them.

I've DMed hundreds of 5E sessions and never had this happen. I've never seen it happen as a player in well over 1000 5E sessions with dozens of DMs worldwide.

 

[EzekielRaiden]

I've seen way more PCs die in 5E than I ever did in 4E.

Same--but I saw more PCs die in 4e than I ever did in any variation of 3rd edition, including PF1e.

 

[Maxperson]

Bold is emphasis. A drow can be a unique cleric of Lolth that has abilities a PC cleric wouldn't have. I have no problem extending that logic to other classes. An elf swordsman who dedicated 200 years to the art of the blade can do things a PC elf isn't able to do.

Why can't my 200 year old PC elf who did that do those things? You get to pick ages, and sometimes even start at higher level.

The assassins of the Brotherhood of Shadow engage in foul rituals that allows them to kill with a single stroke and disappear into shadow. The Cult of the Foul Lord are warlocks who engaged in such blasphemous acts they have unlocked magic beyond the ken of most warlocks.

You want those powers? Retire your PC, join their faction, and after years of training, you too can become an NPC with their abilities. If you want to keep adventuring here and now, there is the Player's Handbook.

Not every game is against having PC villains.

 

[Maxperson]

Ok so it was a problem 10 years ago but is no longer a problem?

For me. For new DMs that isn't true.

No they don't because monsters that are not homebrew come with a CR, and while certain monsters can be more difficult for certain groups (Trolls when the party has no acid or fire), for the most part designing an encounter with off the shelf official monsters within the guidelines will result in an encounter that is not likely to cause a TPK.

CR doesn't mean a whole lot.