D&D 5E (2024) NPCs, and the poverty of the core books

[Maxperson]

What if I say they have notes about how they did it but they're the indecipherable, idiosyncratic scrawlings of a singularly gifted savant?

Then I would consult the gods with a commune spell. Or ask a wizard to contact other plane to get the information. Or Legend Lore. Or...

There are other ways to get information once it is known to be out there. Lots of other ways.

I get wanting consistency but there are some things PCs just shouldn't have access to. Just as there are PC abilities that NPCs shouldn't get, if for no other reason than because the DM only has so much mental bandwidth and needs to run ever other monster.

Those things can be gated behind things no sane player would accept, such as a -6 wisdom and the like. The option should be there, though, if the PC can learn about it(not a given since rolls and ideas can fail) and is willing to pay the price.

 

[Crimson Longinus]

We must play very different D&D. I've seen 15th level 5E parties get wiped within a handful of rounds.

By what? A pack of tarrasques?

 

[Chaltab]

Very very rarely compared to earlier editions. It is the safety wheels version of DND.

I've seen way more PCs die in 5E than I ever did in 4E.

 

[TiQuinn]

By what? A pack of tarrasques?

Our 5 PC party got nearly wiped by the lich in Dungeon of the Mad Mage which also had summoned a Marilith. The fight was in a fairly small space in the Lich's tower which meant most of us were in range of the Marilith's attacks.

 

[Micah Sweet]

I've seen way more PCs die in 5E than I ever did in 4E.

PCs didn't die in 4e either, much.

 

[Distracted DM]

Our 5 PC party got nearly wiped by the lich in Dungeon of the Mad Mage which also had summoned a Marilith. The fight was in a fairly small space in the Lich's tower which meant most of us were in range of the Marilith's attacks.

I'm surprised that a 15th level party would find a marilith such a challenge, even in close quarters, but I think most of my tables give at least some thought to optimization.

 

[TiQuinn]

I'm surprised that a 15th level party would find a marilith such a challenge, even in close quarters, but I think most of my tables give at least some thought to optimization.

Well, I don't know what optimization means to you or how you can tell from my post whether or not our party was optimized, but consider that it wasn't just a Marilith - it's a Marilith plus a Lich in the lich's lair. It wasn't our first fight of the day either so while I don't think we were heavily down on resources, we weren't 100% at full strength.

 

[Distracted DM]

or how you can tell from my post whether or not our party was optimized

Because they were nearly wiped by a marilith and a lich at 15th level. I don't know the other circumstances ofc, but with only that info that's why I said what I did. I didn't mean to sound insulting, there are a lot of folk around here with tables that pick style/vibe/etc. over optimization. I don't love optimization myself, it wasn't meant to disparage anyone, it was probably phrased poorly.

 

[TiQuinn]

Because they were nearly wiped by a marilith and a lich at 15th level. I don't know the other circumstances ofc, but with only that info that's why I said what I did.

I don't follow. I'm not talking about message board theory-crafting, I'm talking about an actual in-game encounter during the course of a campaign. I'm not really into a pissing match over whether our characters were built according to whatever standard you have.

 

[TheSword]

I’ve only ever had one TPK. A party of 4th level players were attacked by a spellcasting Drider. It went first and were all bunched up. It fireballed them. They all stayed in the same position. It fireballed them again. Unlucky saves and a good roll for damage. Game over.