D&D 5E Observations and opinions after 8 levels and a dragon fight

[Warmaster Horus]

I agree with all your points, Celtavian. I've found that the most potent weapon for PCs when fighting monsters w/ higher CR is surprise. Getting a round of surprise attacks helps whittle them down and has often meant the difference between success and loss.

But 5e requires a different tactical approach than previously. Hit points are not easy to recover quickly once lost, especially mid-combat. Bounded accuracy means hits are more common at higher levels because offensive capability (prof ratings, stat bonuses, etc) scale quicker than defensive ones (AC), so more HPs are being lost. If you can get into position to hit, that is.

 

[jrowland]

Just wanted to chime in and say the OP made D&D 5E sound even better. Thanks!

 

[wedgeski]

I keep reading vastly different opinions on the system, some say the CR system is incredibly broken and a low level party can easily defeat powerful monsters, others say the opposite. Haven't run any combats at higher levels yet so not sure myself.

That, in itself, should tell you something.

 

[MonkeezOnFire]

This reinforces what I had already thought. Monster tactics are a more important factor of difficulty than the stat block. I actually quite like this conclusion. It means a DM can use just about any monster for any style of play. Players really want a gritty, challenging fight? The dragon uses hit and run tactics to weaken. Players want laid back casual game? The dragon engages directly.

Another lesson learned would be to always bring a bow/crossbow. This is a bit more disappointing for me since I love to build melee focused characters. The fly spell just doesn't cut it with concentration being so fragile. In a dragon fight the caster should probably focus on something else.

Because concentration is so swingy, the caster should expect to only be able to focus on a spell for 1 or 2 rounds. A better strategy might be to help contribute to the damage race with direct damage spells like scorching ray, rather than trying to keep a buff up. Bigby's Hand might be useful since it does damage on the first turn and if you're lucky enough to have it up later it turns your bonus action into damage. Pre-fight summoning can distract and maybe get a bit of damage in.

 

[Stalker0]

Another lesson learned would be to always bring a bow/crossbow.

Thrown weapons might also be useful if the dragon's cave isn't too high.

 

[Sacrosanct]

Players need to have a good plan before taking on a dragon? Well, duh.

I disagree with most of what the OP was saying, but the most egregious I think is his comments about the rogue. I think the OP needs to reread how sneak attack damage is applied. You don't always need to be attacking from stealth. A ranged attack rogue is still highly effective. Especially an assassin with the alertness feat.

I also find it odd that he complains about the fighter being rough because you have to be in melee, and then praises the paladin based on...wait for it...powers he uses in melee. Seems a tad contradictory to me. Yes, paladins can use up spell slots to up damage, but they still don't have the # of attacks as fighters do. I mentioned this in a thread about a month ago, but I was playing a halfling battlemaster fighter, and I was by far the most effective PC against the white dragon we fought. Using action surge and all of my maneuvers in the first round used up all of its legendary resistances right then and there. Not to mention all the added damage.

 

[Celtavian]

That encounter seems very well DMed. A creature with inherent flight and a no-ammo-limits ranged attack, using both to its advantage. Roman legions had a hard time fighting Parthian mounted archers, for similar reasons: mobility plus range.

But the rogue, IMO, should not be trying to kill the dragon. The rogue should be stealing its treasure, while the others keep it busy. Every time the dragon uses delaying tactics, the rogue might remove one more load of loot from the lair. Then you withdraw. The dragon has to pursue you, or accept loss of its hoard, or think of some long-term or indirect strategy for revenge.

Rogue can't do this while the dragon is in the lair. He might be able to do it while the dragon is out of the lair. Stealth does not work against dragons, period. They have blindsight. They can move quickly and full attack. If the rogue separates from the party, he can be attacked alone by the dragon. It would chew him up quickly.

 

[Celtavian]

Players need to have a good plan before taking on a dragon? Well, duh.

I disagree with most of what the OP was saying, but the most egregious I think is his comments about the rogue. I think the OP needs to reread how sneak attack damage is applied. You don't always need to be attacking from stealth. A ranged attack rogue is still highly effective. Especially an assassin with the alertness feat.

I also find it odd that he complains about the fighter being rough because you have to be in melee, and then praises the paladin based on...wait for it...powers he uses in melee. Seems a tad contradictory to me. Yes, paladins can use up spell slots to up damage, but they still don't have the # of attacks as fighters do. I mentioned this in a thread about a month ago, but I was playing a halfling battlemaster fighter, and I was by far the most effective PC against the white dragon we fought. Using action surge and all of my maneuvers in the first round used up all of its legendary resistances right then and there. Not to mention all the added damage.

Ask yourself this...if you just assumed someone that labeled a thread observations and opinions was complaining, what does that say about your ability to comprehend what is written?

 

[Sacrosanct]

Ask yourself this...if you just assumed someone that labeled a thread observations and opinions was complaining, what does that say about your ability to comprehend what is written?

I would say that makes my comprehension pretty good, if the statements being made fit the textbook definition of what a complaint is.

 

[Celtavian]

We found Dragons fto be a walkover but we have 2 archers, a moon druid with the sentinel feat and the Rogue can switch to a bow and SA via the Druid.

Archery would have made the fight a ton easier. The dragon only engaged in melee for a single round. That was when the paladin unleashed on it.

The dragon's lair actions allowed it to split up the battlefield and limit visibility. The lair also was difficult terrain, which made movement hard. Combine that with lair actions limiting visibility and creating barriers, it made it very hard to bring our attacks to bear on it. Archery would have canceled the mobility problems. That would have been nice.