D&D 5E Observations and opinions after 8 levels and a dragon fight

[sithramir]

So, you would rule that Blindsight is x-ray vision? Can I see through walls/doors with blindsight?

You are thinking too one dimensional here. It's not 'seeing' so it doesn't have to be x-ray. It doesn't have to look through anything. It's sensing the movement on the ground, smelling the odor wafting around the rock, hearing the sound of your breathing, etc. It doesn't need to see THROUGH the rock. It uses others NON VISUAL queue's to sense you are there.

Seems pretty simple when you think about it. Should it mean no one can sneak up on them? Not necessarily but it's the compilation of the senses that gives blindsense. They use some examples but nowhere does it specifically state a dragon uses only hearing and sight for blindsense or only smell and sight for blindsense, etc. So you'd have to cover all the bases of scent, movement, noise, etc.

It's a accumulation of all the senses used at once. I would argue the 3.x Greater invisibility would be the perfect way to say you aren't sensed because it stated specifics like smell weren't sensed also.

How do you hide your smell when sneaking from the dragon? I find that hard to do.

If hunting a deer you hide the HUMAN scent with another scent that is regularly in the area so said deer won't escape know something is totally out of the ordinary. Plenty of scents in the forest. If i'm a dragon and you're sneaking up on me ANY scent that is different would send alarms off. This is where I would state you clearly can't get surprise on the dragon because it senses you are nearby.

Just my thoughts though. Definitely not crystal clear in the rules in that it should state what can and can't be done for something like this.

 

[Gimul]

So, you would rule that Blindsight is x-ray vision? Can I see through walls/doors with blindsight?

The short answer is yes (in the general); however I would make exceptions for certain common sense situations, relative to the nature (fluffwise) of the blindsight in question.

When dealing with walls and doors I would take into consideration their thickness, solidity and any clear paths around them (within the blindsight range). A typical interior wall or door, yes; much as you can typically hear/feel/smell through those. A thick cave wall or keep door, probably not; I would adjudicate these on a case by case basis.

How I would explain it (fluffwise) would depend on the specific creature. For example, it's clear that standing behind a rock would not prevent a creature from hearing you (echolocation) or smelling you, or feeling the vibrations you exert on the ground (tremorsense), etc.

 

[weldon]

I would counter argue, that there is no relation between the manner of movement (stealth) and the destination (the open view of a creature).

There has to be a relationship between manner of movement and the destination. The relationship is that stealth gives me a chance to move undetected to a destination (or through an area) where I would normally not have a chance to move undetected.

If I don't use stealth, then I'm detected (ignoring other conditions).

 

[Gimul]

There has to be a relationship between manner of movement and the destination. The relationship is that stealth gives me a chance to move undetected to a destination (or through an area) where I would normally not have a chance to move undetected.

If I don't use stealth, then I'm detected (ignoring other conditions).

There does not have to be such a relationship. Once you are at your destination either you in open view of the creature or you are not. Stealth allows you to avoid detection when you neither pass through, nor end in, open view.

 

[Hussar]

The short answer is yes (in the general); however I would make exceptions for certain common sense situations, relative to the nature (fluffwise) of the blindsight in question.

When dealing with walls and doors I would take into consideration their thickness, solidity and any clear paths around them (within the blindsight range). A typical interior wall or door, yes; much as you can typically hear/feel/smell through those. A thick cave wall or keep door, probably not; I would adjudicate these on a case by case basis.

How I would explain it (fluffwise) would depend on the specific creature. For example, it's clear that standing behind a rock would not prevent a creature from hearing you (echolocation) or smelling you, or feeling the vibrations you exert on the ground (tremorsense), etc.

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Can I tell the exact location, to the point where I could use "sight only" spells through a closed door if I had blindsight?

Note, you can detect someone when they are hidden, but, they still have advantage on you. All it does is tell you the square they are in. Now, with blindsight, obviously you could tell exactly where someone was if all they were was simply hidden (such as invisibility). No problem. But, "I know there is someone in the next room behind that closed door" is considerably different from "I know that there is a human male in armour seated exactly seven feet from the closed door".

I would have no problems with the former, which would still allow for things to hide, but, I would have a problem with the latter.

 

[weldon]

There does not have to be such a relationship. Once you are at your destination either you in open view of the creature or you are not. Stealth allows you to avoid detection when you neither pass through, nor end in, open view.

I guess I don't understand what you mean by open view then. It's not a term I find in the rules, so perhaps you can explain it. Do you mean that I am "seen" by the creature or that I am in an area where they have line of sight?

I'll use an example to see if I can get clarification on your meaning…

I want to move through an area that is under observation by two guards. In order to move past them, I have to move through an area that has direct line of sight to the guards. If I roll 20 on my stealth check, and their passive perception is 15, do I move through the area without being detected by the guards?

Or are you suggesting that as soon as I step into an area with direct line of sight to the guards, I am in open view and am automatically detected?

 

[Sacrosanct]

I think people should probably watch this, and your questions would be answered (Monty Python on hiding):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltmMJntSfQI

Seriously, it does. Because it addresses the whole "if I am behind a rock 100% am I still hidden" thing. Because you just might not be if there is no other cover around.

 

[Gimul]

Sorry, I wasn't clear.

Can I tell the exact location, to the point where I could use "sight only" spells through a closed door if I had blindsight?

Note, you can detect someone when they are hidden, but, they still have advantage on you. All it does is tell you the square they are in. Now, with blindsight, obviously you could tell exactly where someone was if all they were was simply hidden (such as invisibility). No problem. But, "I know there is someone in the next room behind that closed door" is considerably different from "I know that there is a human male in armour seated exactly seven feet from the closed door".

I would have no problems with the former, which would still allow for things to hide, but, I would have a problem with the latter.

Spells need line of effect in addition to line of line of sight. It is possible to have one and not the other.

 

[Gimul]

I guess I don't understand what you mean by open view then. It's not a term I find in the rules, so perhaps you can explain it. Do you mean that I am "seen" by the creature or that I am in an area where they have line of sight?

I'll use an example to see if I can get clarification on your meaning…

I want to move through an area that is under observation by two guards. In order to move past them, I have to move through an area that has direct line of sight to the guards. If I roll 20 on my stealth check, and their passive perception is 15, do I move through the area without being detected by the guards?

Or are you suggesting that as soon as I step into an area with direct line of sight to the guards, I am in open view and am automatically detected?

As soon the guard can "see" more than 25% of you, you are detected (under typical circumstances, and in your example).

Edit: I can see where some might consider 25% as overly harsh (for losing stealth) and set the threshold at 50%.

 

[weldon]

As soon the guard can "see" more than 25% of you, you are detected (under typical circumstances, and in your example).

Really? Where are you getting that number?