Odd Subdual Question (my players stay out)

[Drawmack]

I am desinging an adventure that will be run at the begining of the campaign. It begins with the PCs being arrested. I'm assuming that when the guards try it's going to lead to a fight. However, the guards want to use subdual attacks as much as pussible as they only want to restrain the PCs not kill them. Now if one of the PCs is hacking at a guard they will retailiate with like force however after they are done with their blade I don't want them to go back to using fists at the cost of taking time to put a sword away or (worse yet) dropping it so I'm thinking that I could have them attack with the buts of their weapons or the blunt edge of the blade the problem is - are their any core rules for this? If not then are there any rules for it anywhere?

 

[hong]

I am desinging an adventure that will be run at the begining of the campaign. It begins with the PCs being arrested.

Bad idea.

The prevailing wisdom is that PCs hate, hate, _hate_ being captured; in fact they'll do everything possible to avoid it. I think the prevailing wisdom is wise.

 

[Drawmack]

Hong,
I'm betting on that one. I want them to fight, kick, scratch and claw until they are unconscious. They are only going to be in custody a very short while but given a task that pits their detective skills against their lives. However that's not the question I asked.

 

[Thanee]

The PC's do not start arrested, but the campaign starts with the guards trying to arrest the PC's (they were probably framed, I suppose). That's ok and I don't think it's what Hong thought.

Anyways, you can use any weapon suitable to deal subdual damage, I believe. A sword could be used with the pommel or blunt side, a bludgeoning weapon would be even less of a problem.

Some weapons should probably deal less damage this way (i.e. sword), but this does not seem to be covered in the rules.

I think the disadvantage is, that you get a penalty on your to hit roll, when using a regular weapon to deal subdual damage.

Bye
Thanee

 

[Datchi]

The easiest way to resolve this would be for the guards to be monks or have a level in Monk. Monks can use their fists to do normal or subdual damage at no modifiers and they get d6 + strength.

If you didn't want Monks, the dirty fighting feet adds d4 damage to unarmed strikes and which woudl help with subdual damage

 

[Stalker0]

Take a -4 to attack rolls, and any weapon can do subdual damage.

A monk can choose to do sub damage with his fists without penalty.

 

[Drawmack]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure that you get the same penalty as if you were not proficient with the weapon. It is dealing the damage that I was wondering about. I mean Getting it with the pommel of a bastard sword shouldn't really do 1d10 + STR damage as far as I'm concerned. I couldn't find anything on it in the books and thought that I'd ask before I just house ruled it.

Acctually the PCs weren't framed. They are from out of town and something came up missing from an aristocrat's house their first night in town. So the aristorcrat's guards bring the PCs in. Although the aristocrat already knows who did it, the local thieves' guild that she stopped paying hush money too. She just wants the PCs to get the item back but that's not what she's telling them. It'll be great fun, I like starting an adventure with the PCs saying "what the "

 

[Datchi]

Sneaky, underhanded, mean, nasty, manipulative I like it!

If you hit them with any part of the weapon other than the part you shoudl use I'd use it like an improvised weapon and give them minuses to hit and damage accordingly.

Better still go for the monk option

Datchi

 

[DevoutlyApathetic]

.....How about a sap?

 

[Drawmack]

So what the core rules say is. That they get a -4 to hit for not being proficient but that the weapon deals standard damage? I don't like that. Here is what I'm think I would like to do.

If they use the pommel or just weighting the fist with the handle, then they get a -4 to hit for being non-proficient. The damage is 4 + size modifier (small +1, Medium +2, Large +3) + STR modifier.

If they use the blunt edge of a blade then no to hit penalty, since it is basically the same as the way the weapon is designed to be used they are just using the wrong side of the blade. The damage would be same as the standard weapon -2 because it doesn't wound.

So if you hit someone with the pomel of a bastard sword you would get a -4 to hit and your damage would be 4 + 3 + STR modifier.

If you hit someone with the blunt edge of a bastard sword you would suffer no negatives to hit (unless you're not proficient) and the damage would be 1d10 + STR modifier -2.

How does this sound to everyone?