OFFICAL ERRATA: Hit points *DO NOT* change in polymorph

[jgsugden]

Apparently you don't get racial bonus feats anymore from polymorph.... oops?

Not so. The PHB is very clear on that issue. Polymorph incorporates Alter Self which allows you to gain racial feats. The DMG errata does not discuss the issue. Therefor, there is no intent to clarify or overwrite any portion of the rules relating to racial bonus feats.

 

[Diirk]

Much like 'improved toughness' could be read as, '+2 con but only for purposes of hp'? or psychofeedback changing the bonus but not the actual score. These things are not without precident

Improved toughness is not '+2 con but only for hp' it is '+1 hp/level', the two are quite different, and its quite specific about exactly what it does and makes absolutely no reference to constitution.

I don't play with psionics but from a quick look over the psychofeedback power and its reference to 'A manifester could simultaneously boost two scores, or all three...' I'd assume that the scores also raise to match the new modifiers... seems kinda of a clunky way to do it, but then you realise using this power to raise your str mod from +3 to +4 costs the same whether you str was 16 or 17.. and produces the same benefit. Fair enough.

 

[Scion]

Improved toughness is not '+2 con but only for hp' it is '+1 hp/level', the two are quite different

List me a difference.

I'd assume that the scores also raise to match the new modifiers...

nope. I just listed the first two examples that came to mind. There are others I am sure.

Even if there werent though they could still do it, to set a future precedent for other things

 

[Elder-Basilisk]

The wording. You're trying to claim Improved Toughness as precedent for a con change that doesn't effect everything con changes are supposed to effect. It's not.

The effect might be the same as if there were a hypothetical con change only for hit points in Complete Warrior. However, since it isn't described mechanically as a con change for one purpose only, it can't serve as precedent for such a mechanic.

List me a difference.

 

[Diirk]

Not so. The PHB is very clear on that issue. Polymorph incorporates Alter Self which allows you to gain racial feats. The DMG errata does not discuss the issue. Therefor, there is no intent to clarify or overwrite any portion of the rules relating to racial bonus feats.

Oh my bad, I was thinking of the description of the polymorph spell, as opposed to the description in the DMG with regards to "the last 3 paragraphs are replaced". For the sake of completion they probably should of listed racial bonus feats in the DMG errata too, tho.. as they did with skills etc

 

[Caliban]

So the text says that they retain their hp but you are saying that it doesnt say hp dont change? What part of 'retain' means 'might or might not change'?

My dictionary says that retain means: 'to not change'

Which dictionary is this? I looked it up online, and while there were a dozen different defintions, that wasn't one of them. One of the definitions is to "keep in mind, remember". So this means your character just has to remember their original stats while they are polymorphed, right? :\


In any case, you guys left out the most important part of errata, it says "retains their original... hit points"

I missed that on my first read through, so yes it looks like creatures with the polymorph ability retain their original hit points.

However, technically this isn't errata to the polymorph spell, just to the polymorph special ability. Make of that what you will.

 

[Ottergame]

To me that clearly means that you keep the same HPs rolled from hit dice (they don't lower if you become an animal or raise if you become a dragon or whatever) but your CON score still adds to your hit points! If the errata had meant that it does not apply, then it would have SAID it does not apply. There's -nothing- in that statement that makes me think this should somehow treat CON different than it does for everything else in the D&D world.

If you con score changes from the polymorph, your hit point bonus based on con should too.

 

[shilsen]

Back to square one!

 

[Philip]

To me that clearly means that you keep the same HPs rolled from hit dice (they don't lower if you become an animal or raise if you become a dragon or whatever) but your CON score still adds to your hit points! If the errata had meant that it does not apply, then it would have SAID it does not apply.

And you would probably say that if you gained Improved Toughness as a racial bonus feat you hit points would change as well.

You original hit points don't change due to a polymorph. It means exactly what it means. Don't change your hit points when you are subject to a polymorph, for whatever reason, be it Con, Improved Toughness racial bonus feat, bonus hit points from size or something else.

What you are essentially saying is: "your original hit points do not change, but only if the Con modifier of the creature you polymorphed in does not change as well, and if it doesn't have other feat or abilities affecting hit points."

Edit: otherwise the rule would have read: your original hit points from class levels or hit dice do not change. But it doesn't say that.

 

[FireLance]

Improved toughness is not '+2 con but only for hp' it is '+1 hp/level', the two are quite different

List me a difference.

Hypothetically? An elf wizard with 1 Con has 1 hp per level: maximum 4 from hit dice -5 Constitution penalty is still 1/level. If Improved Toughness gave "+2 Con but only for hp", he would still have 1 hp/level: maximum 4 from hit dice -4 Constitution penalty. If it was +1 hp/level, he would have 2 hp/level. Granted, it's an extreme case which would hardly ever come up in play.