Official ruling on Battlerager Vigor mechanics

[abyssaldeath]

I disagree with this one. It says Temp HP from invigorating powers stack with "other Temp HP" not itself. You still have to adhear to the rule that Temp HP don't stack. THis is why you should keep them seperated out.
If invigorating Temp HP just kept going up then it would of been easier for them to say "invigorating Temp HP always stack and are cumlitive. Also this way the class is more balance and not as broke as everybody thinks.

So if you have a Paladin who uses Bolstering strike and gains temp HP and then next round use Crushing Surge because he multiclassed as a Fighter he can swap out his other at-will at level 11 those Temp HP stack.
But if he still hasn't been hit by the third round and uses Crushing Surge he will not gain more Temp HP.

The Paladin won't be able to do that because the Paladin will never have Battlerager vigor. Invigorating powers only stack if you have the Battlerager Vigor class feature.

 

[Sunglare]

There are no 'other temp hp' and they aren't separate. You have temp or you don't.

The class can stack temp hp from invigorating to high levels, but do remember the bag of rats exclusion.

Yes there are "other Temp HP." Just about everyclass has a way of obtaining Temp HP. Non of these HP stack. You always take the highest value. But Temp HP from invigorating powers stack with Temp HP from these others sources. So if a fighter gains Temp from a Warlord and then uses a invigorating power he can stack those on top of the warlords Temp HP.

The Paladin won't be able to do that because the Paladin will never have Battlerager vigor. Invigorating powers only stack if you have the Battlerager Vigor class feature.

It doesn't actually mention this requirment anywhere. invigorating is a new keyword that just happens to be found only under fighter powers at this time. The only requirement listed for invigorating is that a person be trained in Endurance. If a weapon talent fighter who is trained in endurance uses the Crushing surge power he will gain the temp HP.

 

[Mengu]

It doesn't actually mention this requirment anywhere. invigorating is a new keyword that just happens to be found only under fighter powers at this time. The only requirement listed for invigorating is that a person be trained in Endurance. If a weapon talent fighter who is trained in endurance uses the Crushing surge power he will gain the temp HP.

Yes, they would gain the temporary hit points, however these temporary hit points would not stack with other temporary hitpoints. Battlerager Vigor is the class feature that allows those invigorating temporary hitpoints to stack.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Yes there are "other Temp HP." Just about everyclass has a way of obtaining Temp HP. Non of these HP stack. You always take the highest value. But Temp HP from invigorating powers stack with Temp HP from these others sources. So if a fighter gains Temp from a Warlord and then uses a invigorating power he can stack those on top of the warlords Temp HP.

Yes you can get THP from different sources, but once you have THP where it came from doesn't matter. The only thing you need to do, as a Battlerage Vigor fighter, when you hit with an invigorating power is add those THP to whatever THP you already have. You don't have a pool of THP and a pool Invigorating THP.

 

[Sunglare]

Battlerager Vigor: gives you THP if you are hit. There is nothing special about these THP's and do not stack with other THP. This in of itself is a huge bonus, replenshing your THP everytime you get hit.

Invigorating: Gives you THP that stacks with other sources of THP. Follow the THP stacking rules though and they should not stack with themselves.
Nowhere is battlerager Vigor mentioned under invigorating.

Reason why you should keep Invigorating seperate from Vigor THP sources.
Con: 18
Not seperate: If you have 8THP, (4 from Vigor, 4 from invigorating) and you are struck for 4 points of damage. THe the player can simply say he still has 8 THP after the hit because he gets 4 from Vigor for getting hit.

Seperate: Same situation but this time he recieved his Invigorating THP after he recieved his Vigor THP. He is hit for 4 dmg, and looses his invigorating THP but since still has 4 THP from Vigor he can't add more leaving him with only 4 THP.

 

[abyssaldeath]

Battlerager Vigor: gives you THP if you are hit. There is nothing special about these THP's and do not stack with other THP. This in of itself is a huge bonus, replenshing your THP everytime you get hit.

Invigorating: Gives you THP that stacks with other sources of THP. Follow the THP stacking rules though and they should not stack with themselves.
Nowhere is battlerager Vigor mentioned under invigorating.

Try looking in the Battlerager Vigor class feature. I may have miss understood what you said above. please ignore if I did.

Reason why you should keep Invigorating seperate from Vigor THP sources.
Con: 18
Not seperate: If you have 8THP, (4 from Vigor, 4 from invigorating) and you are struck for 4 points of damage. THe the player can simply say he still has 8 THP after the hit because he gets 4 from Vigor for getting hit.

Seperate: Same situation but this time he recieved his Invigorating THP after he recieved his Vigor THP. He is hit for 4 dmg, and looses his invigorating THP but since still has 4 THP from Vigor he can't add more leaving him with only 4 THP.

I obviously can't seem to explain it well enough so I'm going to stop trying.

 

[Thistonius]

From reading the PHB on THP, and my understanding of it..

You can THP from multiple sources but those multiple sources cannot stack with itself.

Battlerager vigor, for instance, will only ever give you THP equal to your Con bonus, no matter how many times you are hit. Battlerager Vigor is classified as one source.

If you get THP from another source, then that will stack with your Battlerager vigor.

 

[Sunglare]

Try looking in the Battlerager Vigor class feature. I may have miss understood what you said above. please ignore if I did.


I obviously can't seem to explain it well enough so I'm going to stop trying.

Keep trying Abyssal, you make a lot of good points on these threads.
How would you handle the situation I was talking about before. Player has 4 THP from Vigor and 4 THP from Invigorating. He gets hits for 4 dmg, how many THP does he have left 4 or 8 and why.

FIGHTER TALENT
BATTLERAGER VIGOR
Appears in Martial Power
Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or a close attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved).

When you gain temporary hit points by hitting with an attack that has the invigorating keyword, those temporary hit points stack with any other temporary hit points you already have. (This does not need to be here. This is the same phrase found under the invigorating keyword listed on the next page. Everybody would get this benefit and it's just confusing by mentioning it under Battlerager Vigor too.)

When wearing light armor or chainmail, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with melee and close weapon attacks whenever you have temporary hit points. This bonus increases to +2 if you’re wielding an axe, a hammer, a mace, or a pick.



Wish I had my books with me.

(I think I'll just remove all powers with the invigorating keyword to save trouble, this is where everybody's confusion is coming from. Fighter Talent Battlerager Vigor alone is nasty enough.)

 

[abyssaldeath]

Keep trying Abyssal, you make a lot of good points on these threads.
How would you handle the situation I was talking about before. Player has 4 THP from Vigor and 4 THP from Invigorating. He gets hits for 4 dmg, how many THP does he have left 4 or 8 and why.

Since I can't resist a little ego stroking, I'll try.

Invigorating powers only stack on top of what you already have. So once they added into your THP pool they are just like any other THP you had. As if you got your current total from one source. Once you've gained the Invigorating THP it wont stack with any other incoming THP because it only stacks with THP you already have not with any THP get.

In your scenario, the player has 4 THP from Vigor and 4 THP from Invigorating for a total of 8 THP. He gets hit for 4 damage and recieves 4 THP from BRV. He would only have 4 THP because THP from BRV don't stack. If he got hit for 5 damage he would still end up with 4 THP because the 4 he gains would overlap with the 3 he already had. If he got hit for 3 damage he would have 5 THP because already has more THP then BRV can provide.

FIGHTER TALENT
BATTLERAGER VIGOR
Appears in Martial Power
Each time an enemy hits you with a melee or a close attack, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier (after the attack is resolved).

When you gain temporary hit points by hitting with an attack that has the invigorating keyword, those temporary hit points stack with any other temporary hit points you already have. (This does not need to be here. This is the same phrase found under the invigorating keyword listed on the next page. Everybody would get this benefit and it's just confusing by mentioning it under Battlerager Vigor too.)

You do need that line because if you look at Invigorating on page 7 again you will notice that there is no mention to stacking at all.

Invigorating: If you are trained in the Endurance skill, you gain temporary hit points equal to your Constitution modifier when you hit with a power that has this keyword. No invigorating power grants temporary hit points more than once per turn, even if you hit more than once with the power or use more than one power with the invigorating keyword in a round.

 

[keterys]

Reason why you should keep Invigorating seperate from Vigor THP sources.

That's a perfectly reasonable argument for why you feel it should work that way, and to rule it as such in home games, but that doesn't make it the right answer for someone asking for the "official" way that it works.

It may be that they will errata things to work that way, but I find it highly unlikely as it would require additional tracking that is not really sensical. For example, a character has 2 temp hp, gets 4 from hitting with invigorating (so now has 4), but your way you'd track it as 2/4 so that next turn you could go to 6 instead of 8?

It's more likely they'd institute a maximum amount of temp hp than add a requirement to track in that way. That's probably not a bad suggestion, either, really. Something like 2 * Con.