JRRNeiklot
First Post
I wonder then, why the original Tomb is widely considered one of the best adventures ever. I don't think it's in spite of the deadly trappings, but because of.
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Official Tomb of Horrors 3.5 conversion (merged)
- Thread starter Mouseferatu
- Start date
the Jester
Legend
Bah, I converted and ran Tomb of Horrors as a part of RttToH in 3e over a year ago!
I bet my version was better, too!
(At least for my needs at the time.)
I bet my version was better, too!
(At least for my needs at the time.)
Mouseferatu
Hero
JRRNeiklot said:
I've often wondered that myself.
I think it was novel for its time, and I do like many of the ideas in it. But I think maybe one out of 10 gamers I know personally would have any interest in playing it unaltered. Does that make the prevailing* opinion wrong? Not at all. But it's not the prevailing opinion in my group, nor is it mine.
* And for the record, I've never quite bought the notion that it is "one of the greatest of all time." A lot of people say so, but I wonder how it would be viewed fresh, rather than through the rose-colored goggles of nostalgia. I know that there are plenty of modules I loved back in the day that I wouldn't run now.
JRRNeiklot
First Post
I lost the first character I ever played at any length in TOH. A 13/14 elven fighter/mage named Keebler. It took me YEARS to get him that high under the best dm I have ever known. We made it all the way to the demilich and Keebler was the first to get his soul sucked. Despite losing a great character - the best I've ever had, actually - I absolutely had a blast. The barbarian Thor/Thorina 
) got hammerred with a gender change. No save. If he'd saved against that, it just would not have been the same, nor remembered for 20 years, either.
) got hammerred with a gender change. No save. If he'd saved against that, it just would not have been the same, nor remembered for 20 years, either.
Mouseferatu
Hero
JRRNeiklot said:
And that, alone, proves that you and I have very different gaming styles.
It's no wonder we're not looking for the same thing in a module.Edena_of_Neith
First Post
I wouldn't call S1 The Tomb of Horrors the greatest module of all time.
I'd call it the Deadliest Module of All Time.
It became a symbol of renown, when I was in my early days of gaming, to have a character who had gone through that module and survived it. Typically, one or two characters out of a whole group would survive, if anyone survived at all.
Most of the traps in the Tomb of Horrors allowed no saving throw. In many cases, spell resistance (magic resistance back then) was also completely useless. Even the protection of an artifact/relic was oftentimes useless.
The only hope you had was ingenuity, party cooperation (of the highest degree possible), and luck.
The second time I went into the Tomb, with Edena, Edena (who had been the sole survivor in a previous attempt) said to his companions: Don't touch anything.
They didn't listen. You'd think they'd listen to someone who had survived this awful place, but they didn't.
And they died.
Some modules are just like that.
Again, I'd recommend that anyone going into the Tomb of Horrors hire NPC wizards to create Clones of themselves first, so that if they are killed, the Clone will activate and they can return.
Maybe.
Because some of the death-dealing things in the Tomb, kill the soul as well.
EDIT: I personally witnessed a party of 100th level characters perish in the Tomb of Horrors. They thought their power level would make a difference. They thought wrong.
I'd call it the Deadliest Module of All Time.
It became a symbol of renown, when I was in my early days of gaming, to have a character who had gone through that module and survived it. Typically, one or two characters out of a whole group would survive, if anyone survived at all.
Most of the traps in the Tomb of Horrors allowed no saving throw. In many cases, spell resistance (magic resistance back then) was also completely useless. Even the protection of an artifact/relic was oftentimes useless.
The only hope you had was ingenuity, party cooperation (of the highest degree possible), and luck.
The second time I went into the Tomb, with Edena, Edena (who had been the sole survivor in a previous attempt) said to his companions: Don't touch anything.
They didn't listen. You'd think they'd listen to someone who had survived this awful place, but they didn't.
And they died.
Some modules are just like that.
Again, I'd recommend that anyone going into the Tomb of Horrors hire NPC wizards to create Clones of themselves first, so that if they are killed, the Clone will activate and they can return.
Maybe.
Because some of the death-dealing things in the Tomb, kill the soul as well.
EDIT: I personally witnessed a party of 100th level characters perish in the Tomb of Horrors. They thought their power level would make a difference. They thought wrong.
Mark Chance
Boingy! Boingy!
My conversion is better.
But it's still cool to see WotC do their own.
But it's still cool to see WotC do their own.
Edena_of_Neith
First Post
I would reemphasize this point. It's a thinking person's module.
This does not mean that it's some kind of elitist affair where only the intelligent survive. I've seen many very bright players lose their characters in this module!!!
What is meant by Thinking, here, is:
Spend an HOUR (or a day, or a week, or a month!) looking before you leap.
BE paranoid. Being paranoid is good for you.
Be afraid. Very afraid. All the time. Freddy Kruegar has nothing on this module.
If it looks dangerous, RUN. If you have the faintest inclining it might be dangerous, RUN.
Don't touch ANYTHING you don't have to. Period.
Cooperate utterly with your fellow players. They might - conceivably - enable you to survive this module!
That's what Gary meant, when he said this was a Think Module.
Edena_of_Neith
Two Time Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors (read: very, very, very lucky player)
This does not mean that it's some kind of elitist affair where only the intelligent survive. I've seen many very bright players lose their characters in this module!!!
What is meant by Thinking, here, is:
Spend an HOUR (or a day, or a week, or a month!) looking before you leap.
BE paranoid. Being paranoid is good for you.
Be afraid. Very afraid. All the time. Freddy Kruegar has nothing on this module.
If it looks dangerous, RUN. If you have the faintest inclining it might be dangerous, RUN.
Don't touch ANYTHING you don't have to. Period.
Cooperate utterly with your fellow players. They might - conceivably - enable you to survive this module!
That's what Gary meant, when he said this was a Think Module.
Edena_of_Neith
Two Time Survivor of the Tomb of Horrors (read: very, very, very lucky player)
shilsen
Adventurer
What Mouseferatu said above. There was a long thread on ToH a couple months ago, and the responses to it were usually in the "it's great" or "it sucks" camp, and IIRC, there was no real preponderance of opinions. It's definitely a great module for a large number of people. For another large number of people, it's a very poor module.JRRNeiklot said:
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