Unearthed Arcana Official Unearthed Arcana Survey on Psionic Options Open Now

[Parmandur]

Yeah, the daggers are less powerful than the Assassin level three ability, but seem balanced, if a little boring, to me.

Like a lot of the Level 3 Subclass abilities, both are conditioned by situational utility, but for my money the Assassin is probably the most potent of the Rogues if played right.

 

[Kurotowa]

It still remains infinite ammo, and an unusually early way to get access to magic resistance piercing weaponry. It does seem primarily based around Melee combat, but that's kind of the Soul Knife's traditional schtick, and still bring able to equip two items on a bonus action is better than the base rules assumption with no Feats or other abilities, which would require an Action to unsheath more than one weapon in one round. In a standard 2-3 round combat of knife throwing, assuming no Feats, this can add up in favor of the Soul Knife rather easily in a sticcato rhythm.

I'm not saying you should like it if you don't, or that it couldn't maybe use some tweaking, but as a third level Rogue Subclass ability, it ain't bad.

The thing is, this isn't 3e. There's no long list of monsters with DR against physical attacks that aren't the right specialized material type, such that doing magical damage to sidestep the issue is an advantage. If you've got a magic weapon you're good for nearly every situation. Psychic damage, on the other hand, may be rarely resisted but both objects and most constructs are flat out immune. So "a weapon that does psychic damage" isn't much of a net gain IMO. Not unless you're in a very non-standard campaign where "a weapon that doesn't leave physical wounds" is important, and even then it doesn't matter much if only one PC in the group has one.

So that leaves you with "a short sword you can throw with a weaker Returning property that takes a Bonus Action to retrieve". That's not weak, but it's not strong either. And more importantly it's not doing anything special. For what's supposed to be your signature weapon you might as well be an Assassin with a shortsword for all the effect it has on gameplay. Heck, if your party finds a +1 Shortsword you'd be better off in every way using that until you get Terrifying Blade at 9th Level.

If I roll a Soulknife it's because I want my Psychic Blade to be my weapon of choice, the signature flourish for the character. That means I need a reason not to replace it for the first magic finesse weapon that comes along. Which means it has to be a conduit for other class features that add either raw combat power or unique special attacks. The problem with this draft is that there's only two of those and you get them at 9th and 17th Level. That's a lot of campaign time before the Psychic Blade gives you a real incentive to use it.

 

[doctorbadwolf]

Most of the Fighter stuff he did was for more complex stuff, it's true. But he did make a point of calling out for every Class there was one base Subclass that he always used as the measure for power creep.

OK, and you might be right: but the point of comparison in the PHB is for fairly low-powered abilities at Level 3, though signature in use (being able to pull off neat tricks with Mage Hand isn't exactly OP, either). Seems in the neighborhood of about right, but YMMV.

Mage Hand as a bonus is really good, especially in addition to a couple cantrips and spells.

But like I said, we view the balance differently, no big.

 

[Parmandur]

The thing is, this isn't 3e. There's no long list of monsters with DR against physical attacks that aren't the right specialized material type, such that doing magical damage to sidestep the issue is an advantage. If you've got a magic weapon you're good for nearly every situation. Psychic damage, on the other hand, may be rarely resisted but both objects and most constructs are flat out immune. So "a weapon that does psychic damage" isn't much of a net gain IMO. Not unless you're in a very non-standard campaign where "a weapon that doesn't leave physical wounds" is important, and even then it doesn't matter much if only one PC in the group has one.

So that leaves you with "a short sword you can throw with a weaker Returning property that takes a Bonus Action to retrieve". That's not weak, but it's not strong either. And more importantly it's not doing anything special. For what's supposed to be your signature weapon you might as well be an Assassin with a shortsword for all the effect it has on gameplay. Heck, if your party finds a +1 Shortsword you'd be better off in every way using that until you get Terrifying Blade at 9th Level.

If I roll a Soulknife it's because I want my Psychic Blade to be my weapon of choice, the signature flourish for the character. That means I need a reason not to replace it for the first magic finesse weapon that comes along. Which means it has to be a conduit for other class features that add either raw combat power or unique special attacks. The problem with this draft is that there's only two of those and you get them at 9th and 17th Level. That's a lot of campaign time before the Psychic Blade gives you a real incentive to use it.

It could be tweaked, certainly: but again, the point of comparison is being able to climb well or Use an Object on a Bonus Action.

 

[Parmandur]

Mage Hand as a bonus is really good, especially in addition to a couple cantrips and spells.

But like I said, we view the balance differently, no big.

Oh, for sure, the Mage Hand is pretty good: and I'm not trying to be argumentative (though I might be succeeding, sorry?). I'm just throwing out ways in which the Soul Knife has some pros for a Level 3 ability as is, might still need a bit more something (the non-blade ability options are pretty cool, as well).

 

[Kurotowa]

It could be tweaked, certainly: but again, the point of comparison is being able to climb well or Use an Object on a Bonus Action.

Which brings us back to my original point, where most classes have a pretty weighty initial 3rd Level subclass package and have gotten two more subclass features by 10th Level. Rogues meanwhile have a lower budget 3rd Level package and only get one additional subclass feature by 10th Level. Though I do agree with others that you're selling the Thief package a little short and not considering how strong Assassinate or Arcane Trickster Spellcasting is. There really ought to be room to spice Psychic Blade up a little bit somehow.

 

[Parmandur]

Which brings us back to my original point, where most classes have a pretty weighty initial 3rd Level subclass package and have gotten two more subclass features by 10th Level. Rogues meanwhile have a lower budget 3rd Level package and only get one additional subclass feature by 10th Level. Though I do agree with others that you're selling the Thief package a little short and not considering how strong Assassinate or Arcane Trickster Spellcasting is. There really ought to be room to spice Psychic Blade up a little bit somehow.

Yeah, possibly, but it's not that bad as is. It's not that the other Subclasses are weak, but their low level abilities are similarly limited in one way or another.

The Rogue as a Class is getting a lot of material in the same space, and the Class is meant to be the star, not the Subclass.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

If you consider Shadow Blade a "Psychic Spell" (and why wouldn't you, it does psychic damage), you can make a better "soul knife" out of an arcane trickster.

You could build a more interesting Psychic Rogue by refluffing The Revived, which I suspect was also poorly received.

Mention of "Vader" seems to be important - these classes seem to lack any clear vision for who a psychic character is.

Personally, I liked the weird powers, like body alteration, from 1st edition. The Mystic made a better attempt at these, but tried to do too much and too complex. But they could go back and look at "Immortal" Mystic subclass for psychic warrior inspiration.

 

[Parmandur]

You could build a more interesting Psychic Rogue by refluffing The Revived, which I suspect was also poorly received.

I see no particular reason to suspect either has been poorly received: WotC has the data, and we'll see how it shakes out.

 

[Paul Farquhar]

I see no particular reason to suspect either has been poorly received: WotC has the data, and we'll see how it shakes out.

I think you might need to look up the meaning of the word "suspect". Synonyms: "hunch", "gut feeling", "guess".

If you have the data, you cannot suspect something, because you would know.