Official words on Feint and Uncanny Dodge

[shilsen]

And although I totally disagreed with his reasoning, he had a valid point re: uncanny dodge vs. bluff.

What was the valid point?

 

[the Jester]

What was the valid point?

The wording can be viewed as ambiguous.

I don't view it that way, but I can see why someone would.

 

[Nail]

Who? I have absolutely no idea (where's my "looking innocent and crossing fingers behind back" smiley?).

=>

Spoiler

I'm gonna get banned fer this, but: dcollins.

<=

Happy?

 

[Sir Brennen]

No. Uncanny dodge doesn’t protect you from all situations
that would deny you your Dexterity bonus to AC. It only lets
you retain your Dexterity bonus if “caught flat-footed or struck
by an invisible attacker.” A feint doesn’t render a target flatfooted,
it just doesn’t allow him to use his Dexterity bonus to
AC against your next melee attack made on or before your next
turn.[/I]

See, the highlighted section is what bothers me. No, a feint doesn't render you flat-footed, but neither does an invisible attacker. Yet you retain your Dex bonus for that, too. The FAQ answer ignores part of the ability description.

And if I get to keep my bonus against someone I can't even see, how is feint going to work?

 

[Dracomeander]

And if I get to keep my bonus against someone I can't even see, how is feint going to work?

Because a feint, when properly executed, causes the opponent to either drop his guard or guard the wrong location versus the attack, opening up his defenses.

Against an invisible opponent, there is nothing distracting the defender to cause him to drop his guard.

 

[Hypersmurf]

See, the highlighted section is what bothers me. No, a feint doesn't render you flat-footed, but neither does an invisible attacker.

Well, let's rephrase his answer.

"A feint doesn't render you flat-footed, nor does it render the attacker invisible."

Better?

-Hyp.

 

[RigaMortus2]

Because a feint, when properly executed, causes the opponent to either drop his guard or guard the wrong location versus the attack, opening up his defenses.

Against an invisible opponent, there is nothing distracting the defender to cause him to drop his guard.

Of course this is all semantics when it really comes down to it. You can justify it any way you want. But the bottom line is (which I agree with you on), the rules say you don't retain Dex when feinted, but you do when invisible

You know... Another possible (mechanical) reason why it works this way, is that invis is automatic. Once you are invis, you don't have to make any special opposed rolls to break through someone's defenses. For the effort of putting ranks in Bluff, and having to make an extra roll, and having to beat the target's sense motive, you get the ability to not be stopped by uncanny dodge. Seriously, how many times have you rolled a Feint check and it ended up a Natural 20 which you WISHED you would have used for the actual attack roll? Doesn't that always suck?

 

[dcollins]

There was one poster in particular who would argue the opposite interpretation, quite vehemently, but I have not seen him in a while. He was also the one who told people who had questions on pricing magic items to go to the House Rules forum.

You are confusing two different people. I never participated in any Uncanny Dodge debate, and I don't have the opinion you ascribe to me.

Regarding custom new magic items, that used to be the policy of ENWorld, and I did always feel that it was a better policy.

 

[Egres]

From time to time a new thread on this issue appears, so I figured this could be useful.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=166502