OGL and copyright

[dcas]

does this mean that I cannot say something to the effect of "dungeons and dragons 3.5"

Right, nor any other trademark. For example, you could not indicate compatibility with Microsoft Office.

Interestingly enough you generally can use trademarks to indicate compatibility. But because you use the OGL, you can't.

but I can say 'd20 3.5". My concern is that in some of the older d20 books

You can say "d20" as long as you abide by the terms of the D20 System Trademark License. One of these terms is that you say your product requires the use of the D&D Player's Handbook (or "Core Books"). You could indicate which version there, I believe.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Psion thanks for the help. One last free question please (to anyone really)

whats the best way to mark ogl stuff from your own? an example. You make a new race, but that race has an ability that you designed, but it also has an ablity that rests in ogl territory. Whats the best way to protect the copyright to the race, while giving wtc the credit they deserve? Would making a list of all abilities used, and taken from the ogl and listing them at the end work? Whats a good example of a 3rd party ogl book that protects their world and their characters (basicly ID) while also not breaching contract.

 

[Delta]

(delete this)

 

[Delta]

whats the best way to mark ogl stuff from your own? an example. You make a new race, but that race has an ability that you designed, but it also has an ablity that rests in ogl territory. Whats the best way to protect the copyright to the race, while giving wtc the credit they deserve? Would making a list of all abilities used, and taken from the ogl and listing them at the end work? Whats a good example of a 3rd party ogl book that protects their world and their characters (basicly ID) while also not breaching contract.

I might sound like a broken record, but WOTC's own Unearthed Arcana is one thing where they used the OGL themselves. They don't list individual abilities -- a list of OGC source documents is in the Section (15) Copyright Notice, p. 222. A two-line list of protected Product Identity items is given on page 2 below the credits (listing major trademarks and specific monsters, etc.)

That having been said, I'll agree with others that your level of understanding makes the prospect your publishing under the OGL sound very, very risky to me. If you don't read the OGL and the FAQ at the Wizards site, and feel very comfortable that you've personally understood it, trying to piece together rules-of-thumb in this thread is a very high risk venture.

In short, every element that you can use must have an Open Gaming License attached to it, and you must find all of those licenses, read all of those licenses, and understand and comply with all of those licenses. If you don't feel up to that I recommend that you not pursue this. I must admit that your not being able to spell "copyright", and embarking on a project to navigate legal intricacies, made me first think "this guy is in for a world of hurt".

 

[Psion]

Psion thanks for the help. One last free question please (to anyone really)

whats the best way to mark ogl stuff from your own? an example. You make a new race, but that race has an ability that you designed, but it also has an ablity that rests in ogl territory. Whats the best way to protect the copyright to the race, while giving wtc the credit they deserve? Would making a list of all abilities used, and taken from the ogl and listing them at the end work? Whats a good example of a 3rd party ogl book that protects their world and their characters (basicly ID) while also not breaching contract.

Usually (and there is one specific exception I know of, but don't concern yourself with that...), copyright in OGL products are not allocated on an item-by-item bases. The entire copyright statement that you will be including in section 15 of your copy of the OGL applies to the whole work. Nothing else is required; you have satisfied the conditions of the license. In fact, making a list of your sources could be considered a breach of the "indicating compatibility/using trademarks without permission" clause. So it's best to not even try.

You really only need concern yourself with designating closed, open, and PI sections on your product... with the obvious limitation that you can't really close what's already open.

I'll hasten to re-emphasize that the entire work -- both your new material and any open content you use -- is stilly under copyright. Someone else who isn't willing to use the license receives no special privledges, and it's still protected by copyright law.

I should also hasten to add that I don't do this for a living... I'm just a savvy believer in the open game concept. Discussion to be had in the prior places I mentioned goes into a lot more depth than I do and features real experience by people who work with it.

There's also a few products on RPGnow that discuss entering the d20 publishing trade. I don't know what those contain never having needed to purchase them, but the people who publish it have experience in the trade.

 

[Moon-Lancer]

I read it, but it dosent help me format a book, does it? I can dzn a book just fine, but really i need good examples of the ogl in use, so i can make a book and not have the ogl change my formating and page layout too much. so I was wondering if anyone has good examples. I will check out unearthed arcana. I am a visual learner. I assimilate, its how I learn. so any othe examples?

i did find this in my search kindof odd it was on wiki

Other criticism is based around the part of the d20 System Trademark License which defines "Open Game Content" to include game mechanics and purports to license it. It is widely believed that game mechanics are uncopyrightable in the USA, and according to a circular on the US Copyright Office's website [3], "Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles."

3 is this

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. Copyright protection does not extend to any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in the development, merchandising, or playing of a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.

so that i think gives me a little more fresh air. still i think complying with ogl is the best thing to do, but part of it seems kindof.... un protected by the law. I do realize though my situation is still a gray one.

 

[JVisgaitis]

whats the line and how far can I go before that line is crossed? can I use the same gods in d&d but change their name? How do i keep myself from being sued?

If you're really serious about this you shouldn't be posting these questions on EN World. If you really want to know how the license and everything works, you need to join the Open Gaming Foundation's mailing list. Here's a link: http://opengamingfoundation.org/mailinglist.html

 

[Moon-Lancer]

Usually (and there is one specific exception I know of, but don't concern yourself with that...), copyright in OGL products are not allocated on an item-by-item bases. The entire copyright statement that you will be including in section 15 of your copy of the OGL applies to the whole work. Nothing else is required; you have satisfied the conditions of the license. In fact, making a list of your sources could be considered a breach of the "indicating compatibility/using trademarks without permission" clause. So it's best to not even try.

You really only need concern yourself with designating closed, open, and PI sections on your product... with the obvious limitation that you can't really close what's already open.

I'll hasten to re-emphasize that the entire work -- both your new material and any open content you use -- is stilly under copyright. Someone else who isn't willing to use the license receives no special privledges, and it's still protected by copyright law.

I should also hasten to add that I don't do this for a living... I'm just a savvy believer in the open game concept. Discussion to be had in the prior places I mentioned goes into a lot more depth than I do and features real experience by people who work with it.

There's also a few products on RPGnow that discuss entering the d20 publishing trade. I don't know what those contain never having needed to purchase them, but the people who publish it have experience in the trade.

I just saw this post. It was quit helpfull. I think I will see if i can find some of those books on rpgnow. you have been a big help, even though you may not be an expert you tried and really thats what matters. um check my sig in a few years to see what I am cooking.

 

[Psion]

i did find this in my search kindof odd it was on wiki

Other criticism is based around the part of the d20 System Trademark License which defines "Open Game Content" to include game mechanics and purports to license it. It is widely believed that game mechanics are uncopyrightable in the USA, and according to a circular on the US Copyright Office's website [3], "Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles."

3 is this

http://www.copyright.gov/fls/fl108.html

Copyright protects only the particular manner of an author’s expression in literary, artistic, or musical form. Copyright protection does not extend to any idea, system, method, device, or trademark material involved in the development, merchandising, or playing of a game. Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles.

so that i think gives me a little more fresh air. still i think complying with ogl is the best thing to do, It seems kindof.... un protected by the law. I do realize though that is is dealing only with completely new content based off rolling a 20 sided dice.

This gets really deep. Game mecanics aren't copyrightable. But many hold that RPGs have creative content somewhat beyond that of monopoly. You really are using the OGL to copy exact text, not just mechanics, which is a convenience to the publisher.

Whether the argument holds water is true or not, you can look up court cases that will make it look not so clear cut in a jiffy. (Insert "I am not a lawyer" statement here) The OGL is largely untested in court. However, at the very least, it gives a publisher a statement of intent that gives them some freedom from fear of litigation, and can be very telling in court cases.

 

[dcas]

I read it, but it dosent help me format a book, does it? I can dzn a book just fine, but really i need good examples of the ogl in use, so i can make a book and not have the ogl change my formating and page layout too much. so I was wondering if anyone has good examples.

Look at any OGL supplement or module and you will see. The OGL, designation of product identity, etc., are generally printed on the last page, with a font small enough to allow it to fit. (I have one module in which the OGL is printed on half a page, but it's barely legible.) One way to separate open game content from closed content is to use a different font (sans-serif instead of serif), or to use italics instead of roman.

It is widely believed that game mechanics are uncopyrightable in the USA, and according to a circular on the US Copyright Office's website [3], "Once a game has been made public, nothing in the copyright law prevents others from developing another game based on similar principles."

It's not just widely believed, it's a fact. In fact, ideas in general are not copyrightable, only the expression of them is copyrightable.