OGL; Is it working?

[buzz]

How about the people that have left D&D for C&C or Blue Rose/True 20?

Not harshly generalize, but I imagine the former would be dusting off their Moldvay BD&D sets or their Rules Cyclopedias, while the latter would be reaching for Pendragon, The Shadow of Yesterday, or whatever.

I think the whole standalone OGL products wasn't entirely what WotC was after. Sure, those players aren't taking their dollar to play a totally different system, but they aren't taking their dollar right to WotC either.

Well, true. I would think that such games were still a validation of d20, i.e., the core of D&D. Whether that translates into sales, I dunno.

 

[Kanegrundar]

Well, true. I would think that such games were still a validation of d20, i.e., the core of D&D. Whether that translates into sales, I dunno.

That's all that I'm getting at. Sure, if you're playing M&M you're playing D20 (heavily derived, but still D20) and supporting a D20 publisher, but that doesn't mean squat to WotC/Hasbro if you don't buy some D&D or D20 Modern book from WotC.

 

[Nikchick]

I think TW would have been far more successful as a city book than a player's guide.

You mean like this? Shadowspawn's Guide to Sanctuary

 

[Belen]

You mean like this? Shadowspawn's Guide to Sanctuary

Yep. But I meant as a single standalone book plus publishing adventures for the city. The "player's guide" is what makes it appear separate.

 

[TwistedBishop]

I can promise you, I've decided never to support the work of certain writers/publishers after viewing their antics on various forums. Just in my small gaming group, several others have the same attitude. I'm sure there are many others who never bother to post saying so, but next time they see that author/publisher's name on a book go "oh yeah, I remember him", and move on to the next one.

Yes, but for every one that does that, there are also others that agree with what the publisher said and/or did, who are MORE likely to purchase. It all evens out. None of it really matters, in the end.

The short of it is, people buy the material that interests them

I think the second line invalidates the first paragraph. You buy books you like or need; no one's going to spend money on a useless book for themselves just because they like the author/publisher's messageboard posts. So of the X-number of people planning to purchase any book, sales are lost but none really gained.

Of course, I'm not saying sales would ever drop to zero because of this. I guess it's a question of what a person is willing to settle for. It's not my livelihood, so I can't make that judgement for anyone else.

 

[GMSkarka]

So of the X-number of people planning to purchase any book, sales are lost but none really gained. (....)

Of course, I'm not saying sales would ever drop to zero because of this. I guess it's a question of what a person is willing to settle for. It's not my livelihood, so I can't make that judgement for anyone else.

All I can do is rely upon a decade of experience, and tell you that you're mistaken.

...and I always get people who choose to disbelieve when I tell them this stuff, because it isn't too flattering to think that one's righteous outrage is, essentially, meaningless.

But: Not only have I never seen a drop in sales due to this stuff, but I have on a few occasions seens sales spike higher, due to people made curious by the "controversy."

 

[BryonD]

...and I always get people who choose to disbelieve when I tell them this stuff, because it isn't too flattering to think that one's righteous outrage is, essentially, meaningless.

Perhaps you have the wrong idea of what exactly others may find meaningful.
I see no point in trying to influence anyone else's buying habits based on opinions of the author. That is a personal thing and I see no need to go beyond my person with it.
Knowing that my own money isn't going to someone I think lowly of, and is going to people I think well of is plentyful satisfying and meaningful.

Of course, on a tangent, I must confess that I still do get a wry, cynical pleasure when certain specific authors bemoan the hardships of the marketplace in threads around here.

 

[TwistedBishop]

All I can do is rely upon a decade of experience, and tell you that you're mistaken.

Well, I can't be mistaken about what I know I'm not buying. Or what my particular group chooses not to buy. And considering some of the flamewars I've seen on messageboards over the years, it's hard to believe those people later run out and purchase the flamer's products. However, I never did say that an author/publisher would lose all sales over their bad attitudes online.

The problem is, it's very difficult to know know how many potential buyers you're not gaining. If ten people skip over an author/publisher due to their lack of professionalism on forums, but one person doesn't, the author/publisher could register the additional one sale that month as a sign their attitude affects nothing.

 

[BryonD]

The problem is, it's very difficult to know know how many potential buyers you're not gaining. If ten people skip over an author/publisher due to their lack of professionalism on forums, but one person doesn't, the author/publisher could register the additional one sale that month as a sign their attitude affects nothing.

Your logic is nice. But, you are not an insider, and it is been made clear that insiders have all kinds of top secret special knowledge that they can not share but makes the comments of anyone else meaningless, regardless of reasonable basis. I'm certain that every publisher knows exactly how many sales they have not received for whatever reason and thus can account for it. This mystic insight is the reason that D20 publishing continues to flourish in leaps and bounds.

That is why mistreating would-be customers has no impact in RPG design, unlike every other industry. Only game designers have mystic power.

 

[Vocenoctum]

That is why mistreating would-be customers has no impact in RPG design, unlike every other industry. Only game designers have mystic power.

For some companies, they must ask if you have Mystic Power when they hire, the way some of them go after fans with the same relish and derision as they do their detractors.

I can understand gaining sales from a situation which is two sided, if you're in a debate on Crunch Vs Fluff, you may gain sales for your position, even while losing sales from the opposition.

But, I can't understand how being rude will gain a company more sales than they lose. Sure there's some people that like being abused, and plenty will overlook the publishers attitude because of the product, but why exclude customers in order to prove your mental superiority on some message board? (Especially given the discussions are rarely winnable.)

I agree, it must be Mystic Power.