OGL; Is it working?

[rjs]

I'm not dismissing them as bad products. My review of Black Company was five stars for example, and I enjoy it.

But it ain't D&D. It, like Thieves World, does things to the base power level assumptions. If you're a guy just going to play standard D&D, or RPGA D&D for example, their utility drops quickly.

If you're looking to capture the Black Company or run a gritty D20 game, they work fantastic.

And as far as dismissing people who see things differently than I do? Well, someone's reading into my postings pretty deep. Not my intention. I blame it on the internet.

I'll just throw this in cause I'm a masochist. One of the things I made sure to include in Shadowspawn's Guide was guidance for using Thieves' World with straight D&D. There's absolutely no reason why you couldn't use SGtS with Greyhawk, Kalamar, Black Company or heck even Goodman's Broncosaurus Rex. This said, you could easily adapt the Prestige Classes and rules out of the TW PM fairly easily.

Edit: Gah could/couldn't monkeys and pans

 

[JoeGKushner]

I'll just throw this in cause I'm a masochist. One of the things I made sure to include in Shadowspawn's Guide was guidance for using Thieves' World with straight D&D. There's absolutely no reason why you could use SGtS with Greyhawk, Kalamar, Black Company or heck even Goodman's Broncosaurus Rex. This said, you could easily adapt the Prestige Classes and rules out of the TW PM fairly easily.

Should that be couldn't use?

Reason one: NPC's don't have enough magical gear.

Reason two: NPCs designed on different set of mechanics (backgrounds for example).

Reason three: Setting is designed as low powered and loses a lot of it's appeal when thrown into standard D&D (although for the older fans, the same could be said of Greyhawk!)

Those reasons can be overcome, but it's going to be time consuming and may result in characters that no longer match their origins.

Now part of this can be handwaved away. You can just say that it's a magic poor part of the world or that these NPCs have special training or hope that the players don't bother with some of the assumptions, but there are differences.

If you're just talking about the map, sure, you could use that with anything. Heck, might make for a good jaunt for Spelljammer, especially with the latest issue of Draogn with campaign classics!

 

[GMSkarka]

So when you do it, it is righteous industry folks blasting someone for being a jerk.
When someone else does it, they are being a jerk and their claims about your behavior are written off as whining.

Got it.

I didn't say that, Bryon. Stop being needlessly antagonistic.

 

[BryonD]

I didn't say that, Bryon. Stop being needlessly antagonistic.

I went back a re-read what you wrote. It is a pretty clear interpretation. I even used your own terms.

You most unquestionably framed the two scenarios such that your side got a pass no matter who was being rude.

The part of the equation that you're missing is that one person's "Being needlessly antagonistic" is another persons "Telling it like it is", which, for better or worse, some people enjoy seeing.

 

[GMSkarka]

I went back a re-read what you wrote. It is a pretty clear interpretation. I even used your own terms.

You most unquestionably framed the two scenarios such that your side got a pass no matter who was being rude.

The part of the equation that you're missing is that one person's "Being needlessly antagonistic" is another persons "Telling it like it is", which, for better or worse, some people enjoy seeing.

Bryon, did I run over your dog or something? Is there some reason why you feel the need to single me out specifically for your extra-special attention? 'Cause it's getting really old.

I'm not attacking you. I'm not attacking anyone. I'm saying what my experience has been, and the conclusions that I draw from that. If you find that somehow threatening to your little world-view, or an unforgiveable affront to your personhood, or whatever seems to be your problem, then I apologize...that wasn't my intent.

I would recommend, though, that you might be better served by simply not responding to me, and I will do you the same courtesy.

 

[BryonD]

I'm not attacking you.

I can accept that.

I'm not attacking anyone.

That I don't buy.
Heck, just a few posts ago you were proclaiming "blasting" "jerks" and treating "Asshats" "in the manner they deserve".

Suddenly you're not attacking anyone?

You want the freedom to draw your own conclusions for your experience. Fine.
But then you turn around and accoust others whose conclusions and experiences you don't like. And that is pretty much a habit you have demonstrated since I have been aware of your presence on this board. So don't play all wounded party.
Perhaps you should try treating other's the way you wish to be treated.

I would recommend, though, that you might be better served by simply not responding to me, and I will do you the same courtesy.

::shrug::
I won't make any promise not to respond to a comment I think is unreasonable.

But, I'll call it even and drop the current matter. Fair enough?

 

[Vocenoctum]

The part of the equation that you're missing is that one person's "Being Rude" is another persons "Treating An Internet Asshat In The Manner They Deserve", which, for better or worse, some people enjoy seeing. For every person who whines about industry folks being rude & unprofessional, there is another person who agrees with how the industry folks blasted somebody who was being a jerk.

...and again, what I'm saying is that the two groups usually tend to cancel eachother out....and tend to be miniscule to begin with: Most folks don't care one way or another. They just want their stuff.

It's quite possible they cancel each other out... how do you know?

You've (as in, the posters in our example, no one specific) got an audience. A portion of that audience is online and sees the style of posting. A portion of that portion will let the way you post affect their buying decision. So, these last folks, how do you measure them?

But, more importantly, why don't the authors in question review how they're acting online, simply because it's the professional, polite thing to do. Even if it is a wash, and the customers gained by being an abbrasive jerk equal the customers lost... then why not act professionally?

You can defend a company or a style without being defensive and abrasive. If it doesn't harm your business, but it doesn't help it either, it seems pointless.

 

[Vocenoctum]

And a lot of people don't post on message boards and buy stuff anyway! It's a crazy world.

But yeah, I agree about posters and companies. The market changes, events change, etc... Heck, how many people have clamored for something not European in style and then saw Nyambe, and Mindshadows and said, "Well, that's not what I meant." Poor publishers.

I have Nyambe and Mindshadows, both are great products I'll never use.
As mentioned earlier, you get people screaming for Something Different, but if 20% of your audience wants something different, they don't all want the same different something.

It's fine to make campaign settings, as well as licensed settings, but they're not really going to be used as often as a more generic book. After the initial flurry of D20, I think people started looking more carefully. Sometimes it really seems like publishers don't look at their products to see if it's "useful", simply publishing something that's "neat". People will rave about such a product, but then not buy it vs something else that they know they can use.

 

[GMSkarka]

Heck, just a few posts ago you were proclaiming "blasting" "jerks" and treating "Asshats" "in the manner they deserve".

Suddenly you're not attacking anyone?

I was talking about how charges of being "rude" don't have much weight, because the same behavior some label as "rude", other folks would see as "Treating An Internet Asshat In The Manner They Deserve." I'm not naming anyone as an asshat, I'm not even naming anyone as rude....I'm speaking hypothetically, about why the opinions even out. I'm talking about the HOLDERS OF THE OPINIONS, not the subjects.

Come on, do I even have to explain this, or are you just looking for something to be offended about?

How is a post about the differences in two hypothetical people's opinions (the one who thinks that something is rude, and the one who thinks that it's not), an attack on ANYONE?

 

[BryonD]

I was talking about how charges of being "rude" don't have much weight, because the same behavior some label as "rude", other folks would see as "Treating An Internet Asshat In The Manner They Deserve." I'm not naming anyone as an asshat, I'm not even naming anyone as rude....I'm speaking hypothetically, about why the opinions even out. I'm talking about the HOLDERS OF THE OPINIONS, not the subjects.

Come on, do I even have to explain this, or are you just looking for something to be offended about?

How is a post about the differences in two hypothetical people's opinions (the one who thinks that something is rude, and the one who thinks that it's not), an attack on ANYONE?

If you believe that then you are simply self-delusioned.
Your habit of attack and rudeness is well established.
There isn't anything I can do to make you stop denying it.
And the CERTAINLY isn't anything I can do if you actually believe your own propoganda.
But none of that changes the reality.

And offended is a strong word. I really wouldn't use it to describe how I feel. I'm just calling it like it is.

Anyway, I thought we were dropping this. Was I wrong?