[OGL Questions] Is Dungeons and Dragons a game?

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Chaos Disciple said:
I agree about speaking to lawyers, though I think the need to do so could be seen as the OGL preventing others from publishing compatible game material
As one who support the OGL, I WANT the OGL to be court-tested. It needs to be challenged. It's the only way to set precedent that can either the solidify the license's standing or found it is restricting intellectual creativity.
 

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Halivar said:
Only the mechanics are available for public use (because they cannot be copyrighted). The rest is only available by the terms of the OGL. Because while copyright cannot cover the mechanics of a game (only the artistic expression of those mechanics [i.e. "the literal text"]), using the exact same mechanics drastically increases the chance that you will inadvertently violate WotC's copyrights. All they have to do is show one little section to a judge that shows either literal or non-literal copying (a very low threshold of proof) to get an injunction against your distribution, pending a civil trial and awards for damages from you.

OTOH, if you use the OGL you have to worry about none of this.

Unless you mention mindflayers or beholders, of course. Then you're screwed no matter what.

Do you really think WotC is supporting the RPG community by taking legal action aginst people who just want to share thier ideas and help improve the game they love?
 

Ranger REG said:
As one who support the OGL, I WANT the OGL to be court-tested. It needs to be challenged. It's the only way to set precedent that can either the solidify the license's standing or found it is restricting intellectual creativity.


Im dont know about restricted intellectual creativity, its certianly didnt resrict me from creating some intelligent and creative game innovations. But in some cases it may be discouraging others from profiting off their ideas. Which doesnt really concern me.
 
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Chaos Disciple said:
Do you really think WotC is supporting the RPG community by taking legal action aginst people who just want to share thier ideas and help improve the game they love?
Depends.

If you're using the OGL, then you have to abide the ground rules.

If you're not using the OGL, and you have a fansite, you should consult with WotC regarding what's okay to put on your fansite. I couldn't find their fansite policy anywhere, so if anyone knows, drop a link or document here.

If you're posting it on the Wizards' messageboards, all original content posted is now property of WotC.

But if you take the bulk of the SRD, ignore the OGL, then for whatever your reasons may be (good or ill), WotC may consider this as an infringement of their copyright.

They support the RPG community. But even the RPG community is not completely free of misguided deviants.
 

Ranger REG said:
Depends.

If you're using the OGL, then you have to abide the ground rules.

If you're not using the OGL, and you have a fansite, you should consult with WotC regarding what's okay to put on your fansite. I couldn't find their fansite policy anywhere, so if anyone knows, drop a link or document here.

If you're posting it on the Wizards' messageboards, all original content posted is now property of WotC.

But if you take the bulk of the SRD, ignore the OGL, then for whatever your reasons may be (good or ill), WotC may consider this as an infringement of their copyright.

They support the RPG community. But even the RPG community is not completely free of misguided deviants.


If WotC is supporting the RPG community I think any important innovations in game design would be encouraged be them and definatly not discourage. In fact I would enjoy seeing them using my design improvments on D&D in future WotC product (like I told scott) as opposed to having them try and censure my contributions wth any legal action.
 

You can download the entire SRD file here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35



Here is the entire Copy of the OGL that you can download here: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/OGLv1.0a.rtf

OPEN GAME LICENSE Version 1.0a

The following text is the property of Wizards of the Coast, Inc. and is Copyright 2000 Wizards of the Coast, Inc ("Wizards"). All Rights Reserved.

1. Definitions: (a)"Contributors" means the copyright and/or trademark owners who have contributed Open Game Content; (b)"Derivative Material" means copyrighted material including derivative works and translations (including into other computer languages), potation, modification, correction, addition, extension, upgrade, improvement, compilation, abridgment or other form in which an existing work may be recast, transformed or adapted; (c) "Distribute" means to reproduce, license, rent, lease, sell, broadcast, publicly display, transmit or otherwise distribute; (d)"Open Game Content" means the game mechanic and includes the methods, procedures, processes and routines to the extent such content does not embody the Product Identity and is an enhancement over the prior art and any additional content clearly identified as Open Game Content by the Contributor, and means any work covered by this License, including translations and derivative works under copyright law, but specifically excludes Product Identity. (e) "Product Identity" means product and product line names, logos and identifying marks including trade dress; artifacts; creatures characters; stories, storylines, plots, thematic elements, dialogue, incidents, language, artwork, symbols, designs, depictions, likenesses, formats, poses, concepts, themes and graphic, photographic and other visual or audio representations; names and descriptions of characters, spells, enchantments, personalities, teams, personas, likenesses and special abilities; places, locations, environments, creatures, equipment, magical or supernatural abilities or effects, logos, symbols, or graphic designs; and any other trademark or registered trademark clearly identified as Product identity by the owner of the Product Identity, and which specifically excludes the Open Game Content; (f) "Trademark" means the logos, names, mark, sign, motto, designs that are used by a Contributor to identify itself or its products or the associated products contributed to the Open Game License by the Contributor (g) "Use", "Used" or "Using" means to use, Distribute, copy, edit, format, modify, translate and otherwise create Derivative Material of Open Game Content. (h) "You" or "Your" means the licensee in terms of this agreement.

2. The License: This License applies to any Open Game Content that contains a notice indicating that the Open Game Content may only be Used under and in terms of this License. You must affix such a notice to any Open Game Content that you Use. No terms may be added to or subtracted from this License except as described by the License itself. No other terms or conditions may be applied to any Open Game Content distributed using this License.

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5.Representation of Authority to Contribute: If You are contributing original material as Open Game Content, You represent that Your Contributions are Your original creation and/or You have sufficient rights to grant the rights conveyed by this License.

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7. Use of Product Identity: You agree not to Use any Product Identity, including as an indication as to compatibility, except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of each element of that Product Identity. You agree not to indicate compatibility or co-adaptability with any Trademark or Registered Trademark in conjunction with a work containing Open Game Content except as expressly licensed in another, independent Agreement with the owner of such Trademark or Registered Trademark. The use of any Product Identity in Open Game Content does not constitute a challenge to the ownership of that Product Identity. The owner of any Product Identity used in Open Game Content shall retain all rights, title and interest in and to that Product Identity.

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15 COPYRIGHT NOTICE
Open Game License v 1.0 Copyright 2000, Wizards of the Coast, Inc.
 

Chaos Disciple said:
As Ive stated before my game uses systems and methods of play derived from D&D which are impossible to copyright.

How exciting! You're making an RPG with game technology circa 1975. You've got a game with characters, stats that define the characters, a mechanism for resolving conflict between characters, and a mechanism for determining the success or failure of actions the characters take.

What makes your game interesting? If you strip all the "copyrightable" parts of D&D out of D&D, you don't have much of a game left until you do the heavy lifting of making an all new game.

And who will want to play that new game? People already have thousands of game options. What makes yours more interesting than the available options? Why should people invest scarce time into learning new rules and new systems?

If you want to create a whole new RPG experience that varies greatly from the usual paradigm of characters, stories, and statistics-based conflict resolution, I say more power to you. I'm always interested to see the results of people's attempts at real innovation.

If your game is so similar to D&D that it essentially is D&D, you'll be restrained from distributing it, because you will be infringing on WotC's copyright. You may not think so, but you'll not be arguing with me, you'll be arguing with the staff attorney for a Fortune 500 company that gets paid to send cease & desist letters, and DMCA takedown orders all day long.

I think this whole thread is more about "sticking it to the man" and less about doing something interesting with RPG game design.

Ryan
 

Scott_Rouse said:
You can download the entire SRD file here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=d20/article/srd35



Here is the entire Copy of the OGL that you can download here: http://www.wizards.com/d20/files/OGLv1.0a.rtf


Scott the License appears to apply in regards to material intended for copyright.

If I was to create a game using D&D mechanics that were within the definition of games under US copyright laws (with no intention to copyright) would this be taken as violating (or not agreeing to) the OGL and how would WotC respond if this happened?
 

Chaos Disciple said:
If WotC is supporting the RPG community I think any important innovations in game design would be encouraged be them and definatly not discourage. In fact I would enjoy seeing them using my design improvments on D&D in future WotC product (like I told scott) as opposed to having them try and censure my contributions wth any legal action.

Let's be simple here:

1) You're not a lawyer.
2) Lawyers drafted the OGL and are very likely to have considered your scenario.
3) By coming on here and basically stating you intend to violate the OGL due to your interpretation (likely false) of it, that makes you open to legal action.
4) In case of legal action, it's likely that things like server records, including IP addresses, would come into play.
5) Therefore, you're not anonymous. Not putting your name on something indicates you're trying to dodge the rules and the law.
6) Don't do that. It's not worth the potential hassle.

It's pretty clear just by your confusing the OGL and SRD alone that you've got no idea of the waters you're wading into. Just avoid the trouble and use the damn OGL - it means no hassle for you, no hassles for WotC or their lawyers, and everyone's happy.
 

Chaos Disciple said:
Scott the License appears to apply in regards to material intended for copyright.

If I was to create a game using D&D mechanics that were within the definition of games under US copyright laws (with no intention to copyright) would this be taken as violating (or not agreeing to) the OGL and how would WotC respond if this happened?

You should ask a lawyer who specializes in intellectual property law. I am not an attorney and can't give advice on this.
 

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