[OGL Questions] Is Dungeons and Dragons a game?

[Scott_Rouse]

 

[Yair]

And what many, many people - like myself, a publisher that works with such things professionally every day - have told you is that you're incorrect. All the dissembling in the world doesn't change the facts, which have been presented to you.

You are, at best, treading dangerous and murky water - but do what you will. You're not looking for advice here, but some sort of rallying cry, I think. I reiterate my suggestion that you get yourself a lawyer; you are, I think, going to need it.

I just want to say that I find Chaos Disciple lecturing Jim Hague on copyright legalities hillarious.

 

[Chaos Disciple]

@ Chaos Disciple

Look, this thread got started with a question: "[OGL Question] - Is Dungeons and Dragons a game?" But when i clicked on it and read it, it turns out not to be about you asking questions. Its goes more like this:
You: "X is like that, isn´t it?"
Everybody else: "No, it isn´t. Take care."
You: "No! I disagree. My interpretation is right!"

Now, i could tell you that you implied compatibility of your game with D&D several times in this thread, and you are not allowed to do this without the D20 logo. And that you said several times that your protection against lawsuit was "... but i´m doing it for the good of the game!" and "... hey, i won´t tell anybody that i did it!" So, i could comment on it. But i won´t. Because you do not listen.

(Hmm, i HAVE commented by writing this, right?)

Im not sure I have made myself clear so Im going to try agian

I have pointed out that game systems are free for anyone to use

Then I state I have a "Game" which would use only this legally free stuff

Then I question If WotC would object?


The responses I see people givng are that this is hard to do (including Ryan) so in a reply I gave examples of how I improved the Game systems with out violating copyrights.

Now Im hoping that the RPG Industry "Bigwigs" understand this unique angle for providing the RPG with community with a quality upgrade for the game we all love.

Also how it would not intrude on the existing RPG industry and does not violate any law.

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

And what many, many people - like myself, a publisher that works with such things professionally every day - have told you is that you're incorrect. All the dissembling in the world doesn't change the facts, which have been presented to you.

You are, at best, treading dangerous and murky water - but do what you will. You're not looking for advice here, but some sort of rallying cry, I think. I reiterate my suggestion that you get yourself a lawyer; you are, I think, going to need it.

Yes, but he's going to be anonymous! No one can ever track down someone on the Internet! If they could, the RIAA would be suing college kids over MP3s ... wait a second ...

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

Im not sure I have made myself clear so Im going to try agian

I have pointed out that game systems are free for anyone to use

You're wrong.

Now Im hoping that the RPG Industry "Bigwigs" understand this unique angle for providing the RPG with community with a quality upgrade for the game we all love.

It's not unique. Every 15 year old who gets on the Internet at some point figures out a way around some law and announces that they've turned lead into gold.

The smart ones stop when it's pointed out, repeatedly, that they're wrong and they're about to jump headfirst off the high-dive into a swimming pool with no water.

The ones that don't figure out in a hurry why everyone was screaming at them.

And, I know this is going to sound bad, but it has to be said: Unless someone else is going to write it, your free product is going to be almost unreadable and thus, unread.

 

[Mouseferatu]

Scott, you absolutely need to commission one of the stable of WotC artists to do up a "crashed lightning rail" picture. It would so perfectly encapsulate so many D&D threads these days, it could become truly iconic.

(I suppose you could just go with the one in Forge of War, but it's kinda hard to tell what that pic is without the textual context. One more in line with the picture you posted would be better, I think.)

 

[Dire Bare]

The most apt post yet, and stated so simply!

Props to Ryan, Scott and others giving the OP good, valuable advice.

I am constantly amused when someone thinks they've brilliantly found the magic loophole that somehow everyone else has missed up to this point.

Chaos Disciple, if you are right in this, how come you are the first after seven years to take advantage of this loophole in WotC's design? Why does everyone else use the OGL/SRD? Are they simply sheep? Or do they perhaps know something you can't bring yourself to see?

 

[Jim Hague]

I just want to say that I find Chaos Disciple lecturing Jim Hague on copyright legalities hillarious.

I hope that's in my favor there.

I'll be honest - I've seen how ugly this sort of thing can get from just the freelancer's perspective. Whenever money's involved, here's my advice - don't approach it like a hobbyist, approch it like a businessman and cover not just yourself but the other parties involved. Everyone's happier that way.

When I formed PZP, I had the kind and much appreciated aid of guys like Phil Reed and Steve Kenson to help me work out the OGL and Superlink issues and (in one case) avoid an inadvertent case of infringement. Sure, I could have ignored the advice and plowed ahead...but said advice was freely given, I took it in the spirit it was intended, and benefited greatly by it.

So when I see Scott and Ryan and Ari coming on and giving their advice, I listen. All three are great guys, industry insiders who know what they're talking about. None of them have to come on and try to help out, and yet they have. That's aces, in my book.

Unfortunately, some don't see it that way. More's the pity.

We now return you to the trainwreck, already in progress.

 

[Chaos Disciple]

And what many, many people - like myself, a publisher that works with such things professionally every day - have told you is that you're incorrect. All the dissembling in the world doesn't change the facts, which have been presented to you.

You are, at best, treading dangerous and murky water - but do what you will. You're not looking for advice here, but some sort of rallying cry, I think. I reiterate my suggestion that you get yourself a lawyer; you are, I think, going to need it.

I really appreiciate everyones input and I find this whole thread extremly informative.

Im not sure if you design rpg's jim but if you do then identifying the very clearline between a crunchy game system and peice of copyrightable creative fluff is pretty easy to figure out. (at least it is for me)

I may not be a lawyer but then agian the US copyright law is very clear and simple when it states there is no copyright available for games

I dont know if I would say the same for the OGL


Agian thanks for your suggestions

 

[Whizbang Dustyboots]

I may not be a lawyer but then agian the US copyright law is very short and simple

If this were true, there would be no such thing as copyright lawyers.