OK we know the Sorcerer is Broken, How would you fix him

[UltimaGabe]

I allow my players to use the BoEMII variant sorcerer with a free Eschew Materials feat and Thematic Spell feat, but they don't get a familar until 2nd level. Seems to work so far,doesn't seem to be overpowering the wizard in the group.

Darn you!!! You beat me by 2 minutes!

 

[ForceUser]

While I don't feel sorcerers are weak or broken by any means, having seen them played quite effectively from levels 1 - 15, I have modified them in my campaign purely for flavor reasons. My sorcerers gain Improved Eschew Materials as a bonus feat at 1st level, meaning that in addition to the normal eschew, they pay 1/25th the cost of an expensive material component in XP, and don't require the material component. Sorcerers also gain Bluff or Use Magic Device as a class skill, player's choice.

 

[Alynnalizza]

I like some of the ideas presented here. Eschew metals, Apsumans level thing, and even the light armor rule. Really some great ideas about how to change the feel of the sorceror. Undecided on the feats, but will definitely consider it.

If I may ask a question, and I'm sorry if this sounds mean, it really isn't. Just trying to understand the arguments.

Why give sorcerors extra skill points?

Should a sorceror really have more base (non-intelligence added) skill points than a wizard? (I understand that wizard is Int. based and will end up with more, but isn't that the point of 'studying' magic).


Just curious. Thanks!

 

[Liquidsabre]

Give them 1 spell slot, but zero known spells of the next highest level at the same time as wizards get new spells. For example, at level 5 the sorcerer could cast a third level spell but would know no third level spells -- meaning that the only spells he could cast would be metamagiced up to the higer level.

Yup, been using this in my variant since March and has worked absolutely lovely.

• Skill Points: 4 + Int
  
• Add Intimidate/Remove Knowledge (Arcana)
  
• Arcane Bloodline: Spontaneous Domain Spells/Day (1st-9th) and added 2 bloddline-related bonus Class Skills.
  
• Decrease base spells cast/day/level by one (this spell/day/level is now dedicated to the Arcane Bloodline Spell List). Ultimately the same number of spells cast/day as the core sorcerer, but 1 spell/day/level is dedicated to a bloodline spell instead, very similar to racial spells cast 1/day (planetouched, half-fiend, etc.).
  
• Summon Familiar at 2nd lvl, familiar progression changed from wizard (every other +1 Int is replaced by a +1 Str instead that caps Familiar Int at 10, Scry Familiar replaced with familiar Size Increase at 15th lvl).
  
• Eschew Sorcerous Materials I & II (Monte Eschew Materials split into two and works for Sorcerer spells only, 1/10 cost in XP for expensive material components rather than monte's 1/25th since the 3.5 revision reduced material costs).
  
• Augment Familiar at 5th and 15th lvl (Bloodline Aspect, Exotic, Increase Size).
  
• Bonus Metamagic Feats at 10th and 20th lvl.

There's a link to the full lay-out of my bloodline sorcerer in my sig below. The most up-to-date version in the last post and my current in-use version being on my game ezboard.

 

[Alloran]

If I may ask a question, and I'm sorry if this sounds mean, it really isn't. Just trying to understand the arguments.

Why give sorcerors extra skill points?

Should a sorceror really have more base (non-intelligence added) skill points than a wizard? (I understand that wizard is Int. based and will end up with more, but isn't that the point of 'studying' magic).

The way I look at it, Sorcerers have their ability inborn, instead of having to pour over tome after tome. So they have more time to learn different things. I give sorcerers 4 skill points in my game. Works just fine.

~Alloran

 

[haiiro]

The reason they don't get it at first level is because generally, players aren't positive of what theme they want their sorcerer to have at first level, and we don't want to force them to make a decision they may not like. So they get the feat whenever they have a theme that fits.

That's a really, really clever idea. Consider it yoinked for my back-burner sorcerer revision.

 

[Patryn of Elvenshae]

Since it seems to be germane to the discussion, is anyone else not particularly thrilled with the idea of "Spell Thematics"?

After all, isn't that the way magic already works?

Otherwise, every spellcaster is casting every single spell in exactly the same way, so Why is there a need for a Spellcraft check to determine what the other guy is casting if he's using the same words, gestures, and components as you do?*

* - Assuming, of course, you know the spell in question.

 

[Alynnalizza]

The way I look at it, Sorcerers have their ability inborn, instead of having to pour over tome after tome. So they have more time to learn different things. I give sorcerers 4 skill points in my game. Works just fine.

~Alloran

Okay, never really looked at it that way. I can respect that answer. Thanks.

 

[haiiro]

Okay, never really looked at it that way. I can respect that answer. Thanks.

I'd say the same rationale works just as well for giving them a d6 hit die, and more class skills.

 

[Alloran]

Yeah. I don't think I mentioned that sorcerers get that in my campaigns as well. ^_^;; Sorry.